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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Steve

I studied nutrition as part of my advanced diploma in canine behaviour as food can have an impact on behaviour.

In all the research and studies I read it was felt that puppies need about 30% protein to promote healthy bone, muscle and tissue growth. It is not the quantity (although you can overfeed a greedy dog) that matters as much as the quality.

Adult (non working) dogs should have around 22 - 24% to maintain bone, muscle and tissue.

Hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello all,

I have revisited my pet store ( the one with WAFCOL), spoke to them and they have guaranteed that they will stock WAFCOL for me as and when needed Very Happy I also looked at the JWB Junior ranges and they were all - as far as I can remember @ 24% protein.

So it looks like it is another bag of JWB off to Jersey Zoo for the gorilla's Laughing ..............only a small bag though, along with the remains of the HILLS Science Plan - after a week to go to get him adjusted to the WAFCOL Smile

I have purchased a bag of WAFCOL Salmon and Potato for medium to large dogs...............it states that the protein content is 24%. After previously getting advice from Walters dads owner when he was six/seven mths old - that he was too big for that age, she advised to put him on an adult feed in order to lower his protein, and to keep him on it . I followed this advice and Walter has been healthy and active as always - except for irregular no. 2's.

Beardie luver - could I boost Walters protein intake by giving him some cooked chicken as treats? He does not generally get treats. except for a raw hide chew and some training treats - note: he does not get these everyday.

CJ, what WAFCOL have you got for Jago and how much of this do you feed him?? considering that Jago is not far behind Walter in age. Walter was 12mths old Sunday 16th November. ooops and sorry - yes we celebrated Walters Birthday - had a great day out and he got a rather strange life like feel toy pig that oinks when pressed - he racts to it different than his other toys and it rather amusing to see Walter Challenge this little pink rubber pig by slamming his big furry paws down in front of him as if to say .........GO ON.......OINK IF YOU DARE....GGGGRRRRRRRR!!! Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I found small/med Wafcol better for my four, they seemed to like it more. I am considering moving to a raw diet , the more I read about dog food the more the information persuades me. I have started giving Bertie a raw egg twice a week to give him a bit more protein.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Steve

Jago is on Wafcol Small Medium Puppy. He has about 13oz a day - sometimes a bit more. He weighs almost 20k and will be 11 months at the end of this month.

As a point of interest, have jsut returned from my vet and he said that I need to be aware that a dog that is intolerant to one food may eventually develop an intolerance to another, so to watch for the symptons returning in the future! Something to look forward to, and he said it may never happen, but to just be aware.

We were not at the vet for his diet tho, but because my little rascal has picked up kennel cough Twisted Evil So he has to be kept away from other dogs for 3 or 4 weeks Shocked So no long walks and plays with pals for him Evil or Very Mad He is not at all ill, as lively as ever and eating well. Just started coughing overnight. Twisted Evil He is going to go stir-crazy Twisted Evil

As am I, because as it happens, the timing could be worse, as when we were out this morning he was running around like a lunatic, ran straight into me, and I have just spent most of the day in A&E Evil or Very Mad Result is that I have ruptured the ligaments in my knee - it is excruciating - and have to see a knee specialist when the swelling goes down a bit so that it can be examined under anaesthetic Evil or Very Mad Anyway, I won't be walking anywhere (or driving for that matter) for at least 2months, can you believe Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

And I haven't even started my Xmas shopping Shocked

Hey ho, who'd have dogs Question Question Question

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh CJ you poor thing Shocked - I can remember my very small border collie running into me and sending me a*** over t** years back - tho no damage to me thank goodness.

You will have to look on the bright side of this:

2 months of having everyone waiting on you hand, foot and finger
2 months of not having to brave horrible wet windy weather to walk Mutley
2 months of sitting snugged by the fireside reading all those books you have always intended to read.
2 months of no cooking, cleaning, washing and ironing
2 months logging onto FBC during the day without feeling guilty and going into Chat loads.
2 months of daytime TV - but then again perhaps not.......
2 months of girly lunches at your place - they can bring food and drink in

For the Xmas Shopping there is always the internet - so much better than all those crowded shops and rude people pushing and shoving

.......and get your food delivered by a nice man in a Tesco Van!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope this cheers you up
Wink Sue

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hugs and sympathy CJ. Catch up on your reading, take up sewing/knitting and chat to your chums. Where in the midlands are you?

Belinda
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi CJ,

Ouch! that must be sore Sad Sad

Get well soon, plenty of rest - and maybe that dog treadmill I was talking about might come in handy, for you both Idea Smile

Take care and get well soon.

Steve, Jules and Walter
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh god CJ. poor you'
I agree with Sue, you sit back and get better and let those men run around after you. I had a couple of ops last year and it is amazing what they are all capable of doing when you can't, the only thing is when you get back on your feet they seem to forget how to do things again Rolling Eyes
Get better soon, take care.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the tea and sympathy, guys (tho perhaps wine would have been better Very Happy Tho not really allowed alcohol on my meds Twisted Evil )

Great ideas, but enforced leisure is never as much fun is it Question Very frustrating in fact. I'm a bit of a control freak and it really galls not to be able to do anything Twisted Evil Particulalry at this time of year Exclamation

But how about some sympathy for my little lad and his kennel cough (or shall we call it poetic justice Exclamation - hey, maybe the other dog that caused my accident will get it too Idea Comeuppance or what Question )

Plenty of suggestions to keep me occupied. Any to stop my mutt going stir crazy, bearing in mind I cannot move Question Twisted Evil

James took him out for 45 mins at 6.30 this morning for a run before any other dogs were about, but that will be it now for the day. If he would bring a toy so that I could play fetch with him while seated, that would work. But he won't Rolling Eyes

It took me half an hour to get upstairs last night, takes 15 mins for a loo visit and it is excruciating painful to move. It even takes me 10 mins to hop to my computer - its a desktop so cannaot keep it with me Exclamation So any static games for my best pal would be welcome. Thanks in anticipation.

PS The only thinkg my husband has EVER cooked is, wait for it, condensed soup on toast. Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation So maybe I'll be losing a bit of weight in the next month or two Very Happy Gotta look on the bright side. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just stumbled on this thread - I have fed Oscar on Naturediet since he was a pup. I feel it's probably as near as you can go to a natural diet without doing all the shopping!

It's not a dry food, it's vacuum packed and seems to be very tasty. Very simple ingredients - got the Chicken with vegetables and rice in front of me at the moment and the ingredients state: chicken, brown rice, vegetables natural ground bone, kelp, herbs (rosemary and Rubbed sage), Omega 3 & 6 and vitamins and minerals. Nothing else!

For really fussy eaters you can microwave it for 60 seconds. It's gluten free and 60% chicken. Analysis Prtein 10%, Oil 8%, Fibre 1%, Ash 2%, Moisture 75%.

Oscar is just over two and has 3/4 container for breakfast and the same at evening.

Certainly not the cheapest, but makes salve my conscience as I don't have time to do the raw meaty bone diet!

It's a small company so harder to find - but well worth the look imo. http://www.naturediet.co.uk/

It smells like real food and you can see the bits of rice and carrots and stuff.
Cheers

Beverley
and hope CJ makes a swift recovery, one of ours did exactly te same to my Mum years ago. Ouch!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I used Naturediet for my old boy, Murdoch, until he developed pancreatitis. Then it was too high in fact for him to cope with.

But I too was very pleased with it. When I started using it 12 years ago it was pretty new, but I was given a sample at Discover Dogs in London, where Murdoch was one of the dogs on the "discover beardies stand" and he loved it.

They are a very efficient company - generally deliver within 48 hours and the more you buy, the cheaper it is Very Happy When I started you could only get it directly from them, but now Pets at Home stock it, as does my local pet shop. Probably lots of other outlets as well.

Unfortunately, they do not do, as far as I know, a potato and fish one, and as Jago is cereal intolerant, I cannot use it this time around Sad But maybe I will ring them and suggest they should Idea

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello all,

Just a wee update:

Well after trying in order of foods Royal Canin, James Well Beloved, Hills Science Plan, James Well Beloved - again, and a couple of wet foods early on thrown in for good measure.........................I can honestly say that this is the first time that Walters no. 2's have been "normal" and consistent.............

After some advice from FBC members, I have swapped to WAFCOL - Salmon and Potato medium to large adult approx 1 1/2 weeks ago. Every bowl licked clean ( as is normal nowadays anyway) and no more 1/2 decent no.2's followed by squatting around in circles as liquid runs down the back of Walters "trousers" Embarassed

Fingers crossed that this lasts but so far so good...............thanks for the advice Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That's great news Steve Very Happy

You should have done it months ago Idea

Jago has been on the Wafcol for nearly 5 months now, and stools still firm Very Happy

Incidentally, Jago is still on the puppy small to medium formula, as advised by my vet. Was told to keep him on puppy until he had stopped growing Remind me how old Walter is again Question

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

CJ wrote:
I used Naturediet for my old boy, Murdoch, until he developed pancreatitis. Then it was too high in fact for him to cope with.

But I too was very pleased with it. When I started using it 12 years ago it was pretty new, but I was given a sample at Discover Dogs in London, where Murdoch was one of the dogs on the "discover beardies stand" and he loved it.

They are a very efficient company - generally deliver within 48 hours and the more you buy, the cheaper it is Very Happy When I started you could only get it directly from them, but now Pets at Home stock it, as does my local pet shop. Probably lots of other outlets as well.

Unfortunately, they do not do, as far as I know, a potato and fish one, and as Jago is cereal intolerant, I cannot use it this time around Sad But maybe I will ring them and suggest they should Idea



Hi Cj, They do a "Fish & Potato" Naturediet...

But i think it has Brownrice in it aswell.

Only know as i fed my first beardie this, he loved it. Razz

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Im afraid Wafcol, Salmon & Rice Did'nt work For My Burdock.. Sad Rolling Eyes

It went straight through him, light stodgy poos and lots of them!!

His Back on his Royal Canin Presc atm

And is genrally solid...only gets a end bit..but he is a awful scavanger..its usually when he has managed to eat poop... Confused

Which i just have to be on look out! Im Hoping he will grow out of it.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for that Lisa.

I had actually been on their website to check, so realised that they have started fish and potato. albeit with rice included. But not in a puppy formula. Also the puppy/junior formula they do has only got 12% protein, and I do not think this is enough for a growing dog. His Wafcol has 29% Exclamation

They also recommend changing pups to adult at 6 months, wehn the protein goes down to 10%. I feel this is far too young for a beardie to go onto adult food, with so much growing still to do.

I may relook at naturediet when Jago is older, but at the moment I am of the opinion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it Exclamation "

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I always had the Opinion that nature diet was great and seemed to suit beardies, plus it was one of the first "Natural Diets" out.

I did give it to Burdock the Puppy one as a topping for the Burns, when he was a baby pup & just would'nt eat the Soggy minibites.

He loved it, but think they changed the recipe..to me it smelt awful..and had lots of tongue like bits in it..so i stopped it! Question Rolling Eyes Shocked

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Gilliebreeze wrote:
I always had the Opinion that nature diet was great and seemed to suit beardies, plus it was one of the first "Natural Diets" out.

I did give it to Burdock the Puppy one as a topping for the Burns, when he was a baby pup & just would'nt eat the Soggy minibites.

He loved it, but think they changed the recipe..to me it smelt awful..and had lots of tongue like bits in it..so i stopped it! Question Rolling Eyes Shocked


But the Fishy one seemed okay tho.. Very Happy
It was just the lamby, chicken ones that seemed to contain alot of offal Exclamation

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am also of the opinion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

If you find something that works for you and that your dog is doing well on stick with it, as we all know diar rears are something to be avoided at all costs with Beardies.

With regard to nature diet, don't forget it is a 'wet' food so as it has a large quantity of water in it it will be less concentrated than dry kibble hence the low protein level. Can't remember how you work it out, but it is actually about 40% protein from what I remember, like for like.

Always have a few packs of naturediet in but really can't stand the smell personally. Sad

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Der Embarassed Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

Never thougth of that, Hazel. But obvious really.

But I agree, no runny poos mean we'll be sticking to Wafcol for the foreseeable future Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi CJ,

Walter has just tuned 12mths old. When he was 6-7mths old Walter weighed 25+kilos and that was with very inconsistent eating at the time Shocked .................he was big but did not appear fat could even feel his ribs/backbone etc. and I would be the 1st to say if a dog was fat...........no molly coddling here Wink .

After discussion with Walters dad's owner, she advised to put him on an adult food as he was too big for his age - when 6-7mths old. I did this and his weight dropped a few kilos before returning back around the 25kilo mark in recent times.

I have not met Walters dad's owner -Brenda WHITE personally, but I believe in the beardie world that she is regarded as knowing a thing or two about the breed. All seems well with Walter at the moment now that he is on WAFCOL....... cheers for recommending Very Happy
I have obviously seen the threads re. protein % and I was conscious of the adult feeds having less than the puppy/junior amounts. But with sound advise and a healthy looking dog I have stuck with the adult feed.................until a time if convinced otherwise................I am always willing to listen to sound advice Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That's great then, Steve.

Had forgotton that Walter was such a big boy Shocked

Have to keep Jago on the high protein for a while yet as he is just 11 months and only 17.8k Exclamation Did get up to 19.4k but then dropped dramatically when he had the adverse reaction to Metacam Shocked

But he is back to eating for England, so his weight will no doubt creep up agsin soon, particularly as he is not getting as much exercise as normal while I am laid up Rolling Eyes

But Willowmeads are not a large line anyway, so would not expect him ever to be above 24 - 25k

So glad to hear that Walter is doing so well Very Happy

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