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Kelly1462
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi All.
I have a male bearded collie who is 18 months old. He has always been fed on Royal Canin from a puppy, currently mixed with Forthglade Natural Menu. He is a bit of a fussy eater and had the odd bit of tummy trouble but lately it is getting more and more regular meaning washing several times a day at times.
I have taken him to the vets and he was once given tablets and I was told to put him on a very bland diet of mashed potato and chicken till it settled and have now done this countless times.
Can someone please help and give some advice as to what to do next? I didn't feel the vet was that helpful and I don't know what to do to help our dog. I should say apart from this issue there are no issues and the vet has said there are no health/weight concerns.
Thanks for reading.
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Rip Van Pauline
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We had this with our gr............put him on Wafcol salmon and Potato and he never looked back

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Kelly1462
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you for the quick reply. All advice gratefully received.
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Scruffymuffins
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi and welcome to the fbc Very Happy

I'm no expert, but have you tried just giving the forthglade and not mixing it with kibble? Also, how about adding some prebiotic, something like this...

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-supplements-cat-supplements-prebiotic-probiotic-products-c-5_172/protexin-bio-premium-companion-animals-dogs-p-765

White fish is good instead of chicken too Smile

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Dorsetangels
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Chappie has sorted mine out and we have very few episodes now.
They love it mixed with half terrier biscuites and fortglade and are doing really good.

Chappie biscuit are no frills but seem to work well.

Good luck someone suggested putting their skirts in bands to help with the washing.

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Gilliebreeze
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi-Sorry you are having Trouble, maybe the Royal Canin Kibble is to rich for him Or he is having Trouble digesting the Grain/Maize/wheat which it contains.

Some good Completes On there Own:
Wafcol Salmon & Potato
Arden Grange-Especially the Ocean Fish sensitive
Barking Heads
Fish4Dogs

Wetfood:
Nature Diet, Especially Rabbit & Turkey Flav
Chappie

If he is Picky with the Complete, a spoon Of tuna from the tin(Not Brine) Might Sweeten the deal Without Upseting his Tummy.

I feed Raw, But i know its Not always easy, 2nd to that Try Simple Raw Meat & MIXER Not a complete..Or give the MIXER at sep times(Say in the morning with some veggies)

If he is already on the Forthglade i would suggest this/also make sure he is not getting to much.

Do Not feed any Soft treats/supermarket ones Or Very high in cereal/wheat.

Fish4dogs, Crackerjacks etc are fine.

Best Mixers:

Natural Choice Wholebake (like a Terrier meal) But Holistic/no unamed cereals/fats

Burns Hypoallergenic Mixer

Hope this helps

Lisa

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Jane
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi & welcome, thought I'd just share my experience with RC Millie was fine on the RC puppy when we changed over to the adult version she became really itchy nibbled her fur from her tummy inside legs, can't say I remember her having the squits so much but there is a definate difference between puppy & adult food

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Kelly1462
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you all so much for the help. There are a few things mentioned which I would not have thought of. I have already cut out treats and when I think about it this does coincide I believe with a change to adult food. I have wondered about the RC before but as it was recommended by the breeder have stuck with it.
Have a good weekend all and I shall take a trip to the pet shop Smile
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Jane
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have another beardie that took the change from RC puppy to adult fine, both on Orijen now Millie's fine on it. Hope you find something your lad's ok on beardies and upset tums are not a good combination Razz

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My two have a mixture of Arden Grange Sensitive and Orijen Adult which seems to work and the bowls are always empty. This is mainly because I have actually found somthing that fussy Freddie likes and Hugo does and excellent clean up service...he's not called a ganet for nothing.
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Rusmum
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Has your vet given you any indication of why he has runny stools.

ie colitis, intolerance, or a deficiency

I would go back to basics, if he is already on RC, why not try him on RC vet sensitive (either from the vet or online) topped with a little white fish or chicken.

having been through this some dogs get colitis due to stress, ie differing work patterns, changes in the house etc, these stools are usually ochre in colour and sometimes a little bloody.

Deficiency usually is yellow ish with fatty lumps in them from undigested food.

Intolerance is just runny stools often yellow, greenish but sometimes normal colours. Normal intolerances tend to be grains like rice, wheat and the fat or oil used to flavour the food to make it palatable, this is often chicken fat.

So trying food that does not contain any of the above will usually help. Wainrights lamb, acana grasslands, orijen, wafcol potato and salmon. There are many just try for some with no grain and watch what the oil is.

Chose one and stick with it for a while to see how you go.

Alternatively there is always raw, very few upsets in this.

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Gilliebreeze
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Kelly1462 wrote:
Thank you all so much for the help. There are a few things mentioned which I would not have thought of. I have already cut out treats and when I think about it this does coincide I believe with a change to adult food. I have wondered about the RC before but as it was recommended by the breeder have stuck with it.
Have a good weekend all and I shall take a trip to the pet shop Smile


Hi Again, What ever you decide in regard to your boys diet, it needs to be introduced very very slowly Over 7-10days Or you will end up with more runnies!!!!!!! Shocked
Might be a idea to get some probiotic Powder/best one is Protexin for dogs Just the powder Or Biocult. Lisa

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Cornish Cleo
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello and welcome.

I assume your vet has tested for things like Gardia?

If everything is clear, then he is probably sensitive to something in the food - not everything agrees with all dogs. My Jago arrived on Burns and he did fine on it for a few months, and then.....wham....the problems started!

We eventually found that Jago is cereal intolerant and had very runny stools until I put him on Wafcol Salmon and Potato, which he did well on, with only the odd accident in the trouser department, but he never really enjoyed his food!

But in March we introduced him to RAW and he is a different dog - small, firm stools (far less waste matter) and we haven't had to wash trousers once since then! Plus, he gets excited about meals now - and always licks the dish clean!

Barring unforeseen circumstances, I will never feed kibble again!

Whatever you decide, good luck, and please let us know how your boy gets on.

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chassummer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is the first time for me on this site and although I joined for another reason, my attention was drawn to the tummy problem. My beardie passed away at 15 - she had a terrible tummy. It started at about one year with diarrhoea every now and again, but lasting a few days. By 18 months there was blood in the diarrhoea. I tried every combination of food to no avail - many people gave me advice on which food to try and which achieved little. When I thought I had sorted it, back it came, more fierce than the time before. As time went by and when she turned 5 years, the bouts had become more severe and each time she was admitted to the vets, put on a drip, etc. etc. It would clear up. But invariably reappear, until one bout was so severe she was hospitalized. She had every test possible - and all tests came back negative. Blood tests, biopsy of all the organs, scans - you name it she had it. Finally, the ..... suggested testing her for a Canine Food Allergy Test. All was revealed and if only this was suggested to me years before. It turned out that she was allergic to wheat, soybean (often in dry food), beef (all of these were off the scale), colourings, preservative, rice, lamb, chicken, fish and milk. There were a few other foods which she 'could' tolerate, but it actually left oats, corn (maize), barley, rabbit, turkey, duck - all foods which she had never eaten before. From then on I never looked back. Yes, I cooked everything for her, adding natural supplements, and finely chopped up spinach, broccoli and carrots. I selected her treats carefully or cooked them myself using oats or maize as the filler. All the special food and dried food that the vet suggests and keeps at the surgery, was a complete waste of time because they went right through her - and she hated it anyway.

Very important: The trick is, the new food he is not allergic to, must not be mixed in his stomach with an old food he is allergic to. I mean, if he is allergic to chicken, and you have chicken for your meal, do not even give him a morsel, because it will mix with his meal of the day, and could push the new food into another allergy.

I have found a fabulous organic tinned dog food with a variety of meals, and although pricey, I have established that three of the tins contains everything that she would have been able to eat (less artificial colours, preservatives, soya or wheat, etc. etc.) if only I had found this food while she was still with me.

Of course, you need to know what your boy is actually allergic to before selecting the meal and to know this you need to send his blood to be tested.

If you would like the address for your vet to send your boy's blood, let me know.
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chassummer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry the missing word was 'consultant surgeon' - couldn't think of the word before.

Good luck and I hope he gets better soon.
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The Hairies
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

When we rehomed Georgie in February, Stef had said that she had an iffy tum, they had some tests done and she was allergic to beef and some other things, so I put her on James Wellbeloved that my other 2 dogs were on. Within the week she was really poorly with a runny bum, so we steamed chicken and gave her rice with it, she went for a couple of weeks and it started again, so after about a month, we slowly changed her to tinned chappie, then dry. this seemed to sort her out, and she started to put on weight. In May we gradually changed all 3 dogs onto fish 4 dogs and none of them have looked back since

Welcome chassummer Image

We joined like you, because we had experience of what a few of our Beardies were going through, welcome from all of us here xxxxxx.

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chassummer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you very much for the lovely welcome. I can see that I am going to have to improve my picture presentation!

James Wellbeloved is a very good dry food for dicky tummies, but it didn't do anything for my gal. Of course, the normal trialing the foods is the way to go, and normally you will find something on the shelf that works.

I really came into this discussion, because I have never had a beardie like my gal. She had the severest of food allergies and she had a lot of internal scarring as a result. The consultant told me that she wouldn't survive another bout like the last one - I mean there was blood shooting out of her like there was no tomorrow - and this followed a meal of chicken breast and rice.

I pray that Kelly's boy isn't as extreme as my gal. But just in case, there are a number of allergy testing centres out there, a lot that are not so good, but the one that my gal was tested in is known as one of the best and was recommended by the consultant attending her. My vet was so impressed that the practice changed their testing centre.

My gal did live to 15, with no further bouts, well perhaps the odd small one, and that occurred through my own fault or mistake - or some twat in the park giving out a biscuit or two to her, which were consumed before I could react - because one 'wrong' biscuit was all it took. Of course, the guilty person thought I was 'over the top' and couldn't see the problem.

So I would say do try different foods but if the problem worsens, don't wait for so long before embarking on a different route. I mean being admitted to hospital really is too late.

I'm trying to get a smiley face, but I must be doing something wrong! I really need to get a bit more artistic!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Chassummer and welcome

Sorry you had to go through so much with your girl before you found out the cause. Quite a few on here have gone through similar to your girl but maybe not as severe.

Most will actually say feed, white fish and potato rather than chicken and rice to get over a dicky tummy.

It appears more normal now for a vet to try for specific food allergies but I suppose that depends on owner and vets. Both of mine have had full allergy screens because of reactions. Rufus is intolerant to rice and chicken fats and strangely Nell shows no clinical reaction to the foods but cannot tolerate anything over processed. ie most dogs foods (except Acana and Orijen) Both are now raw fed and we steer clear of beef as its too rich and they are great.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi
Would cut out all grain except for maybe a tablespoon or less of oats made up to porridge.
Would only give chicken breast, no fat.

Would have blood tested ( sorry if have missed if you said that) to see if anything comes up with liver etc.

When Harry's liver enzymes were high I found Jean Dodd's liver cleansing diet, based on cod or other white fish, potato, sweet potato, French beans and courgettes, with supplements. I cook this and haven't looked back in the trouser washing department! Make sure you mash really well. I feed by hand as can be very sticky. I add some porridge (I mill it as and when from whole)
and apple. Apple is good for the digestion, but no pips/core. You can grate it finely if that works better.

Also, would have a FULL thyroid panel done - there is a lot of hypothyroid in Beardies and the symptoms are many and sneak up over years often. Funny digestion is one.
Problem is, vets often have their two or three symptoms they look for and so discount others, or aren't familiar with them. It's progressive over years, with some symptoms they are perhaps trained to look out for not coming until far further down the line, you see.
Make sure it is a full panel and again I can recommend Jean Dodd's lab in California. I sent myself, with the vet drawing the blood, but there is someone in Epsom? who organises it to be done and sent monthly I think.
The problem is, it is sometimes misdiagnosed and also sometimes missed, depending on which testa are done and how the results are interpreted!! it's such a tricky, delicate thing, and a specialist area.
Also, if you send to Jean's lab, she will correspond personally with you.

Good luck!

Oh - has anyone suggested tying the coat back with elastic bands if you are expecting the worst!

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Cornish Cleo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:09 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Chassummer and welcome.

Sorry to hear you had so many problems with your girl, but really pleased to hear you eventually managed to get it sorted.

I have a friend who, many years ago, experienced a similar situation with her beardie but sadly, despite virtually living at the vet's surgery and spending an absolute fortune, they didn't find the cause until too late, and trqgically lost her by then emaciated lad at just 5 years old!

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chassummer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Really so sorry to hear Cornish Cleo that the little boy died because nobody got to the problem until too late. 5 years old was about the time that I was told my little girl would not survive beyond as the bouts were getting worse and causing so much damage to her bowel.

So many people give you so much advice about foods and I know that they are being helpful, but when you have a dog like my girl and the little boy that died, you are on another level. It has been suggested fish, but give my girl fish and she ended up at the vets on a drip. The same with the simple potato. Dry foods were out of the question too.

You really do need to have the allergy test and when the results are received I am sure you will be able to source the right foods in the right mix. I suspect the entire content of the food will never have been given to him before.

Just a stab in the dark, but look at the Lily's kitchen website - it's been awarded the UK's No. 1 Pet Food Company in 2012, the whole tin is of natural ingredients, certified organic. They specialise in dicky tummies/allergies. Because there is 100% goodness in the food, you only need one tin for a beardie. I wish I had found this company when my gal was still with me, they are a young company of only eight, who have had experience with their own dog's problems and decided that dogs need wholesome food, just as humans. The food is 100% natural and organic and there is a range of meats that are rarely, or never, found in any other ranges - www.lilyskitchen.co.uk

Incidentally, the testing place which my gal's allergy test was carried out, recommended by the hospital consultant, is Yorktest Veterinary Services, Innovation Way, York Science Park, YO10 5DQ, www.animal-allergy.com
Tel: 01904 428 550. (Jean Dodds is very good too). But I can only stand by my own experience.

I won't say anymore, and wish you luck - hopefully you will be able to nip it in the bud because he is very young.
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Kelly1462
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi all
Thanks for all the advice
On the day I first posted I started our boy on a sensitive potato and fish with a probiotic. Small quantities with the mash and chicken I knew he was ok on and am changing over gradually. Since starting have only had one minor episode on the first day which is such a relief for us all, especially in the trouser department! I really hope I am not being too optimistic by thinking a corner has been turned but so far do good Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

a test that shows how the pancreas is doing is also something that should be looked at if having problems with diahreea, specially it it becomes yellowish, looks undigested and/or bloody...

I was with my girl at the vets tuesday, and pancreas value is abnormal, so we are doing new tests on wednesday...
suspected nothing of that, but have been reading up on it... and recognize some things now.. Sad Confused

so with those problems in any dog (not onlý for you but for anyone else), if the pancreas have not been tested with blood samples it could always be a good idea..

Good luck with your boy! Smile

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