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freddyteddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi
Has anyone had any problems after their dog has sedation or anaesthetic at the vets . Freddie was sedated when he had an ultrasound of his kidneys 2 weeks ago . He was fine when we dropped him off and when we picked him up he came into the room and didnt seem to recognise us at all . He was walking round all night and walking into things and we were going to go back to the vets but he seemed to get gradually better and so we thought he was just taking longer out the anaesthetic . I realised before he had a follow up checkup a few days later that he was having trouble seeing with his right eye. This has been checked along with the fact that he doesnt seem to hear with his right ear . He has been to see the neurologist and they say that they think he has possibly had a small stroke or starting with doggy dementia He is still going for walks and is keen (so long as not hot weather) and walks off his lead with no problems unless he occassionaly gets disorientated. He still trots off way in front of us on the tracks and paths . He seems to have gone off his food and the right side of his mouth seems to spill out a bit and he seems reluctant to eat . He will pick dog biscuits up and eat them and seems to eat something if I finger feed him to start him off . He can drink water and find his water bowls around the house as normal. He seems to sleep really deep sleeps at night since the anaesthetic whereas before he was getting us up every single night at between 1am and 4am for a wee for the past year. He hasnt got up once in the night since the aneasthetic He is on antibiotics for the e coli infection in his kidneys that the vet prescribed after the ultra sound.
Has anyone had had a reaction to sedation and can anyone give me any ideas on how to tempt him to eat more.
I think the sedation must have affected him in some way as I didnt notice any problems before , unless he had slight problems before and the sedation made them worse ...and just wondered if anyone could offer me any advice about anything.......They are retesting for hypothyroidism again as soon as he off the antibiotics (He has lots of symptoms of this but the blood test came back high normal so they wont put him on medication at the minute until confirmed )
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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So sorry Freddie is having such a bad time, he really does seem to be going through the mill just now. My daughters little Cavalier had what the vets called a stroke during anaesthesia but she did have a dye injected into her spine (for x-rays) so I have always wondered if they messed that up Confused She didn't have the same symptoms as Freddie though, she was walking in circles and drooling, she did improve but never really recovered properly. I would doubt the diagnosis of dementia if he wasn't showing any signs of it before the anaesthetic, I don't think it would come on that quickly.

With his eating are you feeding soft food? If not I would suggest wet food maybe even home cook something like chicken or fish to tempt him, sardines will sometimes get them eating especially if the stroke, or whatever, has affected his sense of smell which it may well have. Chicken broth poored over the food may also help.

Kidney infection can cause a lot of funny symptoms, including dementia type symptoms, in people so I guess that would apply to dogs also, hopefully once the antibiotics get to work things may improve.

Good luck I really hope he picks up soon.

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freddyteddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I managed to get some food inside freddie today.... I remembered when he was very ill a few years ago and in intensive care and wouldnt eat the vets food I used to pop into the supermarket and buy a rotisserrie chicken which smelt lovely.....well that worked along with some pasta and sweet potato.
The vet prescribed Aktivait to try and help him.....has anyone tried this
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi. So sorry to hear of your problems with Freddie. My elderly cat behaved as if disorientated following anaesthesia for tooth removal. It took her a full 24 hours before returning to her usual self. She also had a heart murmur and kidneys were not 100%.

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I've not heard of Aktivait before but after a quick google Very Happy it would seem to be just an antioxidant so shouldn't do any harm even if it does no good, so may be worth a try.

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Threebeards
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry he's having such a hard time, mine haven't had any problems at all.

Just a wee bit dopey for a few hours. Not that any of them have had to have
one. It might have been the type of sedation they gave him, or maybe too
much? Confused Hope he's ok now.

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freddyteddy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Poor Freddie is no better. somedays he seems completely to be unable to see from his left side also and just keeps turning in left hand circles and crashing into things and other days he copes with a walk really well . We saw the the neurologist last week and they seem unconvinced that the sedation had anything to do with his problem with his eyes , ears and mouth on his right side but I do not understand how he could turn and look at me right down a long corrider as he turned into a room to be sedated for an ultrasound and when I pick him up 7 hours later he walked into a room and treated us as strangers and then spent the night stumbling around. Unfortunately I dont think he will get any better,. We havent got a full explanation from the vet as to what has happened...just a big bill !!!! I dont know what to do next. They havent suggested an MRI scan as they dont think its a brain tumour from the tests carried out and I dont feel we could let him have any further anaesthetic after this . They have mentioned doggy dementia but I dont think he has this as this happened virtually overnight ....I have managed to get him to eat but only penne pasta and ready cooked rotisserrie chicken....he just refuses to eat anything else
We just need to know where to go from here and how to help him .....I feel that we getting nowhere ...we have seen so many different vets over the last few weeks regarding his hypothyroid tests, kidney and urine problems and now the neurologists....everyone telling us different
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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm so sorry to hear this it must be so very hard to watch poor Freddie struggling like that. I agree with you that dementia wouldn't happen suddenly in that way it has to be something that happened while he was under the sedation, wether or not it actually had anything to do with the drug that was used. It does seem odd that he is better some days than others has the vet not commented on why this should be? If it was a stroke I would have thought he would be the same all the time. I wouldn't give up hope yet as it was several days before they let Martha (the little cavalier) come home from the hospital and even then she wasn't very good but did improve a lot over time. I would suggest asking for a referal but I'm not sure where you would go if you have already seen a neurologist. I hope someone can come up with some suggestions for you but again I would say give him some more time.

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The Hairies
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Could Freddie have had a vestibular attack?
It would account for his loss of appetite(because he is off balance, he will feel sick) and turning in circles Is it worth asking the vet?
xxx

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freddyteddy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I wondered that too but its just one side. I thought vestibular was both sides or can it be just one side. If I put something on the floor like a biscuit he has trouble finding it as though his nose is not working right.
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The Hairies
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It can be one sided, Dylls was xxx

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AnnS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Poor Freddie and you, when Ellie had her vestibular attacks she veered to the side, had to go round in a big circle to get anywhere. Took a few weeks to get back to normal, although was left with slight head tilt.

Have you get a vet ophthalmologist nearby?

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Threebeards
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Gosh this sounds awful for you and poo Freddie. Sad These Vets seem to be messing you around. Have you thought of trying a Naturopath? You never know, they might be able to find some answers?

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I am sorry to hear about Freddie.

Some of Freddieís symptoms are similar to a brain lesion. These can be caused by many things and itís worth having a read about them.

If a dog has a brain lesion on the left hand side of its brain the dog may circle to the left, were as if a dog has a lesion on the right hand side of its brain the dog may circle to the right. Other symptoms may be changes in behaviour, clumsiness, loss of facial sensation and dilated pupils, I think there are more as well but not sure of them all and they may only show one or two symptoms.

It would have been helpful for Freddie to have an MRI scan but itís a shame he cannot be sedated again.

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

What's his spatial awareness like? If it's vestibular that should be affected.

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freddyteddy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Freddie is bumping into things and he approaches his water bowl directly for a drink normally with no problem. With food he goes towards it but is unsure of where it is and then he does a complete circle to the left then he finds it. Sometimes he wants to go a walk and trots readily ahead of us off his lead slowing down then trotting again.He sometimes forgets where we are and when call him he seems unsure of where we are calling him from and then does the circle again and then comes to where we are. He sometimes seems worried as to where he is. He sleeps very deeply at night and we have found it best to leave him till he wakes up by himself.
He has seen the eye specialist and the neurologist and they say he can see,. I have rang them as I have questions for them that I want answers to but they havent got back to me yet ...I am going to chase them up again tomorrow as I want to know what they mean by he can see for a start (is it just light and dark, or short distance or what ) I am convinced something happened under sedation as he went in normal and there was nothing wrong with his sight then because I turned as he was led into a room about 40 feet away from me to be sedated for the ultrasound and he looked directly at me and he hasnt looked at us properly since
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AnnS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hope that you get some answers. Maybe a daft idea but could you take a wee video of him when he does this, if the vets haven't seen him do so.
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judy g
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That is a good idea, Ann Smile

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freddyteddy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It is a good idea. I took a video that i showed to vets of him walking ahead of us when he is being confident and not panicking
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beardielady
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What is the name of the antibiotics he is having?

Can you find out the name of the anaesthetic, sedative he had? (These should be on your bill).

As it seems to have happened so suddenly I am wondering whether Freddie has the MDR1 gene mutation and has had an adverse reaction to a drug. Acepromazine is one such drug.

Not so sure it is this, but dogs with masticatory muscle myositis have problems with eating etc.
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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

beardielady wrote:
What is the name of the antibiotics he is having?

Can you find out the name of the anaesthetic, sedative he had? (These should be on your bill).

As it seems to have happened so suddenly I am wondering whether Freddie has the MDR1 gene mutation and has had an adverse reaction to a drug. Acepromazine is one such drug.

Not so sure it is this, but dogs with masticatory muscle myositis have problems with eating etc.


That's actually a very good point, the pre-med always has ACP in, did he have a pre-med injection?

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Some of the symptoms Freddie has can be signs of a neurological problem but they can also be behavioural as well.

I remember when I have had to collect Buddy from the vets after having anaesthesia and he was very confused as to who I was. He could not even walk down a few steps I had to carry him to the car. It can take some dogs a lot longer to get back to normal and with older dogs this can be quite stressful for them.

Itís interesting that you say when on your walks with Freddie when you call him he seems unsure where you are and then he does his circle and then comes back to you. This can be a sign of a neurological problem but the way you describe it, and the context in which Freddie does this, it could be a sign of anxiety. Freddie has got stressed as to where you are and does a circle as a coping mechanism, itís called canine compulsive disorder. When on your walks try and stay closer to him for now. When Freddie approaches his food bowl and does a circle this may also suggest he has some anxiety about where his bowl is or eating from it. I have seen this before with beardies, try moving his food bowl to a calmer location such as in the living room and place it down right in front of Freddie and then sit nearby him if he eats from it. If he starts to eat then dont talk to him just sit their calmly and let him eat, once he has eaten his food still keep calm. If he gets anxious about where you have put his bowl then you will have to move it back to where it was originally or try another place.

New studies are saying that the affects of anaesthesia can be longer than we think and it can take time to get over the affects. It may be that due to the anaesthesia and some of the affects directly after it may have caused Freddie some serious anxiety and stress. Which then can cause some depression. If the vets cannot find or confirm anything then this may be the reason why. Itís only natural for us to be concerned when we see changes in our dogs but this can sometimes make them feel more anxious. It is hard but we have to try and act as things are normal because if we worry then so do our dogs and this can impact more on their anxiety or sustain it.

I know from experience with having ocd and depression this can affect your sleeping habits and routines. You can be so tiered mentally it makes you sleep longer, or you don't sleep deeply through the night and when its time to get up you can't get out of bed.

I would take confidence that the neurologist and vets have not been able to find anything and that Freddie can see alright. It may be all you can do is to except what the specialists say and work on helping Freddie calm down and feel more relaxed.

Best Wishes

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freddyteddy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Thanks everyone.
I am pretty sure that Freddie has changed due to the sedative. He went into the vets suffering from what we later found was an ecoli water infection in his kidney and the vets written report says that when he arrived at the vets he was bright alert and responsive in their own words
He was give dolorex,dexdomitor, and atipam and since we picked him up he has not been the same boy.
It is so upsetting. He also seems to show no emotions as before he was a very waggy tail exciteable dog and now he looks so depressed
I have made an appointment with his specialist vet who knows him well for Monday when she gets back from holiday as I feel she will see the difference in him and hopefully we will get some answers
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Gosh, what a time you are having. It is awful when you can't seem to get answers. Good luck for Monday. I really hope you get somewhere. Hope Freddie will be better soon x

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh poor boy Sad Good luck for Monday.x
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