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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

judy g wrote:
Sad Oh Chris, I am so sad to hear this. You <know> that you are doing everything you can, dont you?....and you are giving this poor dog the best chance. Even if you are able only to calmly get him to the vet for the last time, then you will have done more for him than it sounds has been done for a long time.

We are all thinking of you and the dog. I know how much you are hurting over this situation, but remember that someone out there is thinking of the dog's best interests, and that person is YOU.

xx


Thank you Judy for your post, I am very grateful.

xxx

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Dorsetangels
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Chris knowing you this will be so hard for you.
You can only do what you can - he is how he is because of other.

Take care. x

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you Barbara,

I called them up today to see how things were going as I really wanted to get things moving but it looks like I wonít get to see him till the weekend now. Sad

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judy g
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

sigh - so sorry to hear this, Chris. The stress of it all, for you and the poor dog, is unbearable. Thinking of you xx

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I was supposed to see the dog on Sunday but due to their circumstances I could not go. I am going this Thursday to see him. I have to take my dad to a couple of appointments this week and one of the gentlemen is working so its the earliest we could meet up.

Will let you know how it goes.

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judy g
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sending you lots of best wishes, Chris, and the dog also xx

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you Judy,

I have been trying to make arrangements for the dog in case things donít turnout as we hope but I cannot find a vet anywhere willing to help. I appreciate they don't want to get bitten, neither do I, but there is a way I can contain him and make it safe but they wonít help.

They all said call the Police.

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judy g
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad What about one of the rescue charities...? Blue Cross, RSPCA ( yes, I know what we all think about the RSPCA ) but...perhaps they would have more flexible vets? Oh Chris - this shouldnt be so hard, really....xx

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maxnick
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh dear Sad Could his food not be laced with a sedative ( if that is the route he will go down Sad ) beforehand? Hoping something can be done for this poor boy.

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sadly they wonít help Judy.

Even if a vet was willing to help we could at least put our heads together and come up with a plan. Its only when he is in the conservatory when he becomes very aggressive towards anyone, outside of that he calms down.

I wanted them to bring him to me but that does not seem possible for some reason although I was told he went in a car last year. They are unable to get a muzzle on him so we canít take him to the vets practise as that would put people in danger of being bitten and this also poses a problem for me assessing him safely and for any future vet treatment he may need if he were to be re-homed.

When I worked with leopards it was easier to get a vet the treat them than it is this poor dog. They easily sedated them before going in with them to give them treatment, maybe we need a zoo vet.

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judy g
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I was wondering, like Max, if a strong sedative could be put in his food....?

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have been asked to take another dog to the vets in the morning with a family to be pts as the family are not confident in handling him in this situation as he becomes very scared. The vet has prescribed him Diazepam to put in his food to help calm him down and make things less stressful for him. The family have spent a lot of time working with their dog to help him except a muzzle so the vet will see him because of this.

If we could get a muzzle on the bulldog a vet would see him at the practise. I showed them how to help him except a muzzle but not sure what they have done. In time he may expect it but we dont have that luxury sadly.

He could be given Diazepam in his food and then we could contain him safely even without a muzzle so he can then be fully sedated but there is no one willing to do this.

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Last edited by snowleopard on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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judy g
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sad so sorry, Chris. Very sorry

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The dog I helped the family with to be pts would not except the muzzle despite he has done in the past, he had made bad associations with it. The only option to keep everyone from being bitten was to use the vets dog restraint pole. I had to put it over his head and take him into the vets where the nurse helped hold him and the vet gave him the sedation. He was a powerful dog and it took all my strength to hold him. It was stressful for everyone especially the poor dog. It got to me but I wanted to stay strong for the family, my heart went out to them.

If needs be this may be the way the vets will help me with the bulldog. When I asked my vets practise manager about the bulldog they never mentioned they had a restraining pole which we could use making a muzzle not completely necessary. As the vet which helped today is a vet I try to see myself if possible as they change each day, and she was really helpful, not like the manager.

The Diazepam had no affect calming him down.

Some dogs become fearful and distressed by having to have a muzzle put on or when restraining devices or techniques are used so they can be sedated and itís not right.

If a captive wild animal needs sedating the vet uses a dart gun to sedate the animal then once sedated they are able to enter the enclosure safely. This causes the least stress to the animal. Why with our dogs that share our lives with us, why do we have to restrain them this way, put muzzles on them or hold them down so they can be sedated and under the stress they lose control of their bodily functions, this is just not right, and the poor families have to see this.

Maybe all vets or local councils should have a pen were by dogs can be placed inside and allowed to calm down in a calming environment and can then be darted easily without stressing the dog as much. This would do away with muzzling dogs or restraining them for sedation. Places like the Dogs Trust could have special facilities like this.

Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 we should not cause a dog any unnecessary suffering in it's life and I think this should include in it's death as well. Should we not let our beloved dogs go out of this world with some dignity.

You help dogs with their emotional problems to prevent them from being pts so itís not something I do regularly. It has made me open my eyes that something has to be done about this.

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judy g
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sad I did wonder that the diazepam might not have any impact. Sometimes sedatives can even act the opposite way. I had wondered about a restraining pole, whether that might be the only way.

Poor dog, and poor you, Chris. This is all very distressing for you. What would we do without people like you who wade into these situations and do what is best? xx

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Judy,

I believe it can be the same for anti depressants as well, they can make you more anxious or depressed. You would not think that something made to help you has the potential to make you worse. He was given a small dose over the weekend to make sure there was no reaction as dogs that may become aggressive can be more prone to this behaviour after the medication.

None of the vets I called mentioned the restraining pole so I took it they never had one as they all said speak to the dog warden or police. It does now seem to be an option at my own vets which I prefer as I trust the vet and nurse we saw today, they were very good in a very stressful situation.

Thanks Judy I think everyone would do the same in the same situation.

xxx

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

snowleopard wrote:


Some dogs become fearful and distressed by having to have a muzzle put on or when restraining devices or techniques are used so they can be sedated and itís not right.

If a captive wild animal needs sedating the vet uses a dart gun to sedate the animal then once sedated they are able to enter the enclosure safely. This causes the least stress to the animal. Why with our dogs that share our lives with us, why do we have to restrain them this way, put muzzles on them or hold them down so they can be sedated and under the stress they lose control of their bodily functions, this is just not right, and the poor families have to see this.

Maybe all vets or local councils should have a pen were by dogs can be placed inside and allowed to calm down in a calming environment and can then be darted easily without stressing the dog as much. This would do away with muzzling dogs or restraining them for sedation. Places like the Dogs Trust could have special facilities like this.

Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 we should not cause a dog any unnecessary suffering in it's life and I think this should include in it's death as well. Should we not let our beloved dogs go out of this world with some dignity.

You help dogs with their emotional problems to prevent them from being pts so itís not something I do regularly. It has made me open my eyes that something has to be done about this.


Well said Chris. So sorry you and the family had to go through that.

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maxnick
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Chris, I really feel for you having to go through all this. I hate seeing animals suffer. Crying or Very sad

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you.

I donít understand that when the practise manager and others I talked to said they were not willing to help with the bulldog when there must be many dogs like this that need some support. When with the vet yesterday she and the nurse were prepared for any situation and had a number of options including when a dog is not able to wear a muzzle as they see dogs like this on many occasions. I guess some of the people I talked to may not have directly worked with animals and were concerned for their staff when the vets deal with situations like this regularly.

Its all very confusing so I think I will now only talk to the vet who helped us yesterday.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I hate to have say this, but I honestly think it would be kinder to the poor dog, and every one, for him to be pts. If those vets are willing to help. Someone could be there with him to comfort him. All mine have been pts. due to old age, but only when they've told me they're ready. I've held them in my arms and they all went peacefully. Crying or Very sad I really feel for you Chris, you've done so much to help this poor dog. Confused

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you Pam.

I went to see the Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog this morning and I am so glad I did, I knew his problems were due to being isolated in the conservatory. Since I last saw him he is getting good long and regular walks and has been enjoying them. He looks in really good condition and has a good weight. He is so much more relaxed than he was, he was a different dog.

The gentleman was unable to bring him to my home and was apprehensive about working with him to expect a muzzle which I appreciate as he is powerful dog. This meant that I could not assess him fully and safely. I could stand closer to him but he did not really want to come and say hello but he showed no aggression towards me. Itís difficult as some dogs may bark from across the street if they are scared of you while another may let you close but then given you no warning and bite.

I think its hard at times to read the body language of bull breeds as they tend to stand quit tense naturally. He looked calmer but I was not pushing my luck.

There were men cutting a tree down outside the home and the dog was not bothered by the noise they made and he walked nicely passed cars when last time I saw him he barked at them and wanted to chase them.

This dog has had it tough and has been traumatised by his experience but he just needs some time. However he has bitten someone very badly and caused some serious damage and a bite is never expectable but he had been left and isolated for a long time and was scared because of this.

This dog needs to be somewhere where he can be assessed over the next few weeks, sadly I dont have the facilities to do this and it may take a while to get him to except a muzzle. Because of this I cannot re-home him myself as I dont know how he will react in many situations.

The gentleman has talked to the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, Dog warden and the Police and none of them said they could help. A few months ago I was told by someone who works at my local Dogs Trust that they now only take dogs which the dog warden has taken to a kennels for stray and abandoned dogs. Anyway I called them myself this morning and although they told the gentleman they could not help they said that they may be able to help him by taking him into the kennels and assessing him themselves. I have no idea why I was told they do not take dogs in like this anymore or why the gentleman was told they could not help. Any way they may be able to help now which is the main thing. The gentleman has to talk to them himself and they will see what they can do.

The house sale has been delayed I think so we have about another two weeks that gives us some more time. In case the Dogs Trust canít take him then I have put plan into action for this dog. The gentleman is going to a nearby vets on Monday to register the dog with them. While there he is going to ask them about putting him to sleep if we have no other option, and if he walked the dog to their practise could they do this although he wonít have a muzzle on. If they wonít do that then I will talk to the vet I worked with earlier this week. I have told the gentleman to ask to talk to a vet about the dog, not just the receptionist or the manager.

I knew this dog deserved another chance and I only hope that the Dogs Trust give it to him. If they take him and he cannot be re-homed then we could not have done anymore for him.

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maxnick
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The main thing is Chris, you have tried your best & that is all you can do. Thank you.

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judy g
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, and a thank you from me too, Chris. What a time you are having with this dog and his guardians...and always know that you are going not only the extra mile for this dog, but the extra 100 miles...somewhere I hope he knows that...and truly I hope that YOU know that, also.

I can imagine how stressful and upsetting this has been, and is being, for you. Without people like you in this world, dogs like this would have such a horrendous existence.

Good man. xx

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you Max and thank you Judy you say the mostly loveliest things about me, I really am touched.

Itís been a complicated one for sure, nothings been straight forward with lots of confusion and messing around but hopefully it will all be worth it.

Thank you

xxx

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judy g
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Smile Credit where credit's due, Chris, is all xx

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