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maxnick
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

For those of you not on facecloth, I think it is worth you having a look at the info on these, on-line ( use your favourite search engine). I think then you can make an informed decision as to whether or not you give this to your dogs.

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I knew about the Bravecto and also lepto 4 but hadn't realised just how bad lepto 4 is. Thanks for the heads up Max.

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tb
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

How come these products are still being sold when there have been so many adverse reactions as sadly deaths reported

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maxnick
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

tb, sadly not everyone has associated the illness's with having used the products & if they have & shown their concerns to vets, most vets have seemed to 'link' the illness to something else, or have not come across it ( some vets still do not know of the contra-indications). There is a whole group now on fb, who are urging people to voice their concerns & let the manufacturers know ( & their vets)

Sadly it is not good reading & it has been going on for a while in the States where the products were used before they came here.

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Nina07
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

There was yet another death reported on the "Bearded Collie Breed Protection" facebook page a few days ago after an Affenpinscher (and Beardie) breeder in the UK gave Bravecto to her 7 Affenpinschers following her vet's recommendation. As not all of you have access to fb, I have copied here the full sad story:

I would like to warn everyone of the dangers of using flea treatments. Try to use natural products like Waggleantics and Billy No Mates. Please read this post and take heed, bearded collies have a pre disposition to Auto Immune diseases.

We normally apply ‘Frontline’ to our dogs once or twice a year regardless if they have fleas or not as a preventative measure. A couple of months ago Martin came back from the vets with a new flea treatment that we haven’t used before called ‘Bravecto’ right away I felt uncomfortable with it but was assured by the vet it was now the safest & best treatment on the market. All seven of my Affenpinschers were given the treatment, within days they were itchy, some were vomiting with diarrhoea, one almost took their own face off from ear to ear, I was immediately concerned but once again was assured by the vet that the face problem was due to ears & not the treatment given. Looking back on the past couple of months I can honestly say we have never spent so much time in the vets in all the time we’ve had Affenpinschers which is 8 years. Shortly after this my smallest one Charlie had two fits, which he recovered from fairly quickly, however, 10 days ago he went off his food, at first I thought one of the girls might be coming into season as he often goes off his food at these times, but within a couple of days I could see it was something else, we had his blood checked & on return he was rushed to the vets for emergency treatment, it turned out he had ‘Autoimmune Anaemia’ we were shocked as despite his size he has always been a healthy little dog. He was put on a drip & stayed in the vets for further treatment. This is when I started to look into ‘Bravecto’ and to my horror found out that many dogs have died since taking it, I felt sick. Last Thursday Charlie took a turn for the worse & we rushed him to a ‘Specialist Vets in Somerset’ they tried everything, it has been an emotional rollercoaster, yesterday the vets called to say that Charlie’s condition was worse & we travelled up last night to say our goodbyes because he wasn’t expected to make it through the night, I lay awake all night waiting for the phone to ring. Our darling ‘Charlie’ lost his fight this morning & we’re heart broken. I’m sharing this as a warning to anyone who is thinking or has already used ‘Bravecto’ please check out the Facebook Group ‘Does Bravecto Kill Dogs’ & the online forums regarding ‘Bravecto’. Goodnight Charlie we love you so much. x

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That is appalling Nina Shocked why are they still allowed to sell this stuff!! Twisted Evil

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Pat Phillips
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My vet recommended Bravecto as the only product that would protect the dogs from the new strain of tick. I refused it but they still say it's harmless and in fact give it to their own dogs. I can't believe how many vets still don't seem to be putting the welfare of the animals first.
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maxnick
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Nina, for copying that. I read that too. It is heartbreaking. Crying or Very sad

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My daughter heard today from one of her clients that their friends dog had died after being treated with Bravecto Twisted Evil

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tb
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Crying or Very sad that's very sad.

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maxnick
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Awww Jacquie that is so sad Crying or Very sad

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Nina07
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, it makes me both very sad and angry to hear of such a large number of dogs having problems or even dying after taking Bravecto...

However, when I discussed this topic on my French Beardie forum, a friend who has got a 6-year old male called Forman, was quite distressed at the idea that the sale of Bravecto might become forbidden following complaints by its users. She explained that it is the only solution she has to prevent her beloved Forman from being bitten by ticks. They live in a region of France where not only ticks are very numerous but also a large percentage of them carry piroplasmosis. Forman is one of those dogs that seem to attract ticks (my Foxie is the same! Rolling Eyes ) and the poor dog already had piroplasmosis twice in the past few years and had to go to the clinic in an emergency. He was very slow to recover, the 2nd time he had it... Crying or Very sad Forman being allergic to Advantix, his owner tried to apply various natural remedies but they had no effect and poor Forman was immediately covered in ticks and in danger of being very ill again (as you know, piroplasmosis can be fatal). Then her vet recommended Bravecto last year, and since then not one single tick has dared coming close to him! His owner is well aware of the problems encountered with this product but for her it is worth taking the risk, as she has no other alternative...

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tb
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

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This is the stuff to look out for avoid, the toxicology reports on affected animals are appalling. When poisoned by this there is no cure.

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Nina07
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Terrible, isn't it... Shocked Crying or Very sad

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:09 am Reply with quoteBack to top

A friend of mine took her beloved female Beardie, Kitty, to the vet's last Friday to have her yearly booster jab - unfortunately the vet used Versican L4... Poor Kitty immediately started vomiting and looking very ill... As she was still on the clinic premises, my friend's vet could give Kitty an injection of cortisone Rolling Eyes which stopped the allergic reaction... The vet put a warning in Kitty's computerized file so that she won't be administered L4 ever again. The poor girl spent a rather bad weekend, feeling rather weak and limp and then started suffering from a bout of cystitis. Back to the clinic on Monday, and the vet who saw her (not the same one as last Friday) said that yes, this had most probably been triggered by the L4 injection followed by cortisone. So now she has been on antibiotics since Monday and is slowly recovreing from the bad experience... Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

My goodness is there no end to this? Shocked Evil or Very Mad I was talking to my vet last week about the lepto 4 jab as she is recommending it for my dogs and I have refused it. She is adamant that their practice has never had any reactions with it - really? Twisted Evil

I hope your friends poor girl is better soon with no lasting effects.

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tb
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Stand your ground jacquie, you would never forgive yourself if you became their first one.

We still believe that's how we lost Panda, sadly we can't prove it.

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I didn't know that Tracey but it makes sense, she was so young. The problem I find is that the vets make you feel so guilty that you wont do it. My vet was saying that Lepto is everywhere and that is the one vacine she would certainly give. I have no idea where she got that info from but if that was the case then why aren't we vaccinated against it? Humans catch it too, doesn't make sense to me. Evil or Very Mad

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have found the Facebook Group "Nobivac Lepto 4 -our experiences" extremely informative and just wish I'd come across it before subjecting our Beardie Flora to a Nobivac Lepto 4 vaccination.
Briefly, in April 2015 we took her to the Vet for her annual boosters (which until then had consisted of the usual Nobivac DHPPi and Lepto2); we were told that DHPPi was now only given every 2 years, so not needed this time round (fine), and that L2 had been replaced with L4 for which, as it was a new vaccine for her, she would need as an initial shot with a follow up one in 4 weeks time. With no reason to question any of this and, trusting my Vet on the "benefits" and lack of any mention of possible side effects of L4, we agreed to the initial L4 injection. However, 3 weeks later and a week before she was due to go back for the follow-up shot, Flora collapsed - staggering around, head tilted over, violently sick, eyes quivering side to side. Within 24 hours she couldn't stand or walk and wouldn't eat. The vet said it was stroke (though we subsequently researched this ourselves and realised it was actually a vestibular episode). He said to give her about a week but if no signs of improvement after that it was unlikely there'd be any. Thankfully, Flora did recover. After the first week, when she was totally immobile and refusing all food, she gradually improved until virtually back to normal. She retained the head tilt and suffered some permanent loss of vigour and cognisance but basically we felt lucky she had survived at all.
And then, early this summer (2016), she developed almost permanent diarrhoea. By July with no improvement and with her starting to dramatically lose weight, we embarked on long drawn out veterinary investigations until eventually blood tests showed definite liver abnormalities. An ultra sound scan then showed a distinct mass in her liver with a biopsy subsequently establishing she had multiple inoperable tumours throughout her liver. We were told nothing could be done other than put her on special hepatic diet food and complementary feed tablets which could slow the progress of the disease sufficiently to give her anything from a few weeks or months or even years more. So we started her on this in September and initially she took to it with gusto and we saw a distinct improvement in her energy levels and vigour. However, this proved to be a false dawn. By the end of September she was starting to go off this food until very soon refusing to touch it. This quickly progressed to her going off all food, including all the other things she'd previously eaten with no problem, special favourites and homemade broths of nutritious and previously relished food which I tried to tempt her with.
With no nourishment and no dietary support for her progressively reducing liver function she quickly went drastically and dramatically downhill and, with the vet advising us there was nothing more he could do, we made the agonising decision in mid-October that there was no way back for her and the time had come to let her rest. We had the vet come to the house and gently put her to sleep as she lay on her mat with her head in my lap. She was only 7 years old.
I don't know and certainly have no proof (and haven't even mentioned this to the vet as I suspect they would argue the toss), but I just can't help wondering if the liver disease stemmed from the 2015 Lepto4 injection. I firmly believe that the vestibular episode was definitely a consequence of that injection, and I now feel that a second and more serious consequence was the onset of the liver disease which eventually cut short her life. I do know that I will do everything in future to ensure no other dog of mine is vaccinated with either L4 or L2 unless absolutely necessary (i.e. due to specific location and/or lifestyle circumstances) and will resist any attempt to make regular annual vaccination with L4 an acceptable occurrence.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh I am so sorry to read this, and send best wishes.

Run free, pretty Flora xx

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So very sorry for poor little Flora... Crying or Very sad

Yes, the problem is that so far there is no way we can be 100% sure that one of those products is the cause of all the problems and deaths we read about, there's no official proof, so of course nobody can sue the laboratories... The administrator of the Facebook page that deals with the problems suspected to be linked to the use of Bravecto has had to change the title of the group several times in order to avoid any legal complaint from the labs!

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So very sorry to hear about poor Flora she was far to young to go, as Nina says no way to prove the case but it will always be a question mark for a lot of people. I too wish I'd known about the awful side affects this vaccine can have as I had 2 of mine vaccinated with it before I knew anything.

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beardielady
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So sad to read this.

You might want to report it. Anyone can report an adverse reaction to veterinary medicine etc. Please see here:


https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/adversereactionreporting/
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Nina07
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree with this, of course! My friend whose Beardie, Kitty, had an adverse reaction after her L4 injection has filed a report with her vet.

And by the way, poor Kityy is not completely back to her normal self, after a first bout of cystitis which the vet reckoned was due to her violent allergic reaction to Versican L4 + the cortisone jab she had to have to stop it, she had to be back at the vet's only this afternoon with yet another cystitis... Crying or Very sad

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So sorry to hear this Nina, I really hope Kitty eventually makes a full recovery.

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