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roy lee
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have a bearded collie X rescued from RSPCA 2 months ago, I do not know much about her background other than she is 5years 8months old and her owner died and she ended up in kennels
In the house and garden she is absolutely perfect, I cannot find even a minor fault with her, however to take her a walk is a nightmare, it starts as soon as we get ready to take her out, she starts with a whimpering increases to shrieking and a high pitched loud yapping and jumping up, when we eventually get her out and free she is content to walk a few paces in front of us until we stop to talk to someone and she starts the barking all over again
We have tried to cure her ourselves, we have called in an expert who opined that she was trying to be 'top dog' and we should make her stay in her bed until quiet even if it took all day to achieve this. We have followed her advice and we can stop the barking but not the getting over excited.
I would be grateful for any advice that may help because taking her out is a chore and not the pleasure it should be
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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi and welcome to the FBC Very Happy Sorry to hear you are having problems with your rescue beardie x, it does take time for rescues to settle and of course we have no idea what they have experienced before we take them on. I would most deffinately ignore the conclusion of your 'expert' that idea seems to me to be total rubbish!

You head your post with Anxiety and that may well be much more to the mark, overexitability can certainly be a sign of anxiety and who knows, maybe she wasn't exercised much prior to you rehoming her.

Chris is our behaviour expert and I'm sure he will pick up your post shortly and give some general advice. He wont however give specifics unless he has met your dog as it's not really possible to know what is happening without a proper assessment, but I'm sure he could point you to a better behaviourist than the one you consulted. Have a look at COAPE or APBC to see if there is one near to you. Their methods are kind and fair and COAPE will certainly be looking at what may be causing the problem rather than just a quick fix.

I take it you have had the vet check her over for any medical possibilities?

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roy lee
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

thankyou for your comments, we too feel that the advice given to us was not based on the real reasons behind her behavior, but we need to get to understand Millie's problems so that we can help her.
As for the vets we have not taken her yet because we are waiting until her boosters are due which is next month and by that time she should be fully settled in
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We have two 8 year olds here who still go beserk every morning when they think they're going on a walk, barking and bouncing around, (and get impatient if we stop for a chat).

I think its just a 'Beardie' thing as a lot of friends have the same issues. As soon as they have their leads on, everything's fine and back to normal.

Xx

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi there I agree with what Jacquie says and without seeing her it is hard to tell if it is excitement or something else. Beardies are very exuberant at the best of times. I have 2 girls, we get up i throw some clothes on and off for a walk, my youngest who is 2 gets very excited and almost does cartwheels and barks, her mum who is 6 is a lot more sedate. Sometimes with the youngest i have to turn my back on her if she won't sit for her lead to be put on, i do find she then realises if she doesn't sit then we are not going. Once out she pulls on the lead till we reach the lane, once we get to the lane they are allowed to run free at this point she becomes a delight and her recall is even better than her mums. She always wants to please and gets very excited trying to do this. Do you think it is excitement with your girl and what is she like off the lead or have you not been able to let her off yet, does she go out with other dogs, does she like other dogs! Chris is a great help with problems so hopefully he will be on soon.

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roy lee
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

you have cheered me up no end, with Millie she is great off the lead, she chases a ball and brings it back, she is instantaneous when recalled, totally ignores other dogs and people which makes her seem like a different dog to when we are preparing for a walk, if this behavior is common to beardy,s as Double Trouble has also commented on then we will live with it and not rush to try and modify her
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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Of course as Nikki and Helen say beardies are extremely noisy and bouncy my 9 year old still flies round like a looney and barks her head off at anything which she finds exciting, which to be honest seems to be just about everything! Laughing

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

roy lee wrote:
you have cheered me up no end, with Millie she is great off the lead, she chases a ball and brings it back, she is instantaneous when recalled, totally ignores other dogs and people which makes her seem like a different dog to when we are preparing for a walk, if this behavior is common to beardy,s as Double Trouble has also commented on then we will live with it and not rush to try and modify her


It does sound then as though it is just the Beardie side of her taking over when walks are due Very Happy It may well be that she settles down a little when she has got used to regular exercise. Very Happy
A good idea is to be very calm when preparing for a walk and try to vary your routine so she doesn't twig quite so quickly that it is walk time. When you stop on your walk and she barks try to wait for a quiet second or two before walking on so that eventually she will realise that barking gets her nowhere but quiet gets you moving.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If you saw and heard ours you would think they never go out. Once in the car they settle down , after have a quick burst of excitement when we let them out they get on with their walk. 🐾🐾

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

NFB (Normal For Beardies) Very Happy Wink

Reelee RoyLee, I'm sure you will be able to modify this behaviour, but don't worry too much coz Beardies are like fine Champagne they both pop, fizz and bubble over. Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

My lot go nuts for every walk, sounds normal to me, would say if she is enjoying her walks it is probably excitement. And you really don't know much about her past. Your expert sounds outdated in her methods.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:27 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Jacquietwig wrote:
Of course as Nikki and Helen say beardies are extremely noisy and bouncy my 9 year old still flies round like a looney and barks her head off at anything which she finds exciting, which to be honest seems to be just about everything! Laughing


That sounds familiar Rolling Eyes My two are 8 and 10 and still bouncing off the walls Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just to add my two penneth my two girls are just the same. The older one has more working traits and if I stop to chat to somebody she not only barks but has been known to rise up on her back legs and give me a poke with the front two. In the limbic part of her brain she thinks she is moving cattle on Very Happy Typical Beardie. Well done for rescuing and enjoy for many years xx

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have limited training experience and I don't know if all this would apply to your beardie but,

we rescued a young springer that had been kept on a chain all it's life. When we first let him off the lead, indoors, he raced round like a maniac and literally tried to climb the walls. Our other two dogs sat waiting patiently on their beds. When the springer was finally still I carried on getting ready to take them out. Every time the springer moved off his bed I stopped getting ready. This went on for over 45 minutes but eventually he stopped for long enough for us to clip on. The process was repeated every day for some time but with the waiting interval growing less each day.

Can't remember how long it took but he did in the end realise that being still came before a walk. I think walking out was such an astounding experience for him he just couldn't control himself.

Pulling on the lead like a train did apply to my rescue, 14 month old beardie. With her, when that happened I simply stopped and, at first, put her back to heel, before carrying on. This was a real trial when we were on holiday approaching the sea and she could see all the other beardies already in the water. I was a long, lonely journey with both dogs. Both tended to drift but if I stopped, each realised why and came back to heel.

Millie, my beardie, still has some tendency to do this, even after over five years with me but this is probably due to my initial lack of experience and maybe if I had persevered earlier she would be better by now.

Hope you find this helpful. Her other behaviours sound brilliant, I must get my Millie to read your post !!

Good luck.
Joy and Millie Moppet

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Joybells wrote:
I have limited training experience and I don't know if all this would apply to your beardie but,

we rescued a young springer that had been kept on a chain all it's life. When we first let him off the lead, indoors, he raced round like a maniac and literally tried to climb the walls. Our other two dogs sat waiting patiently on their beds. When the springer was finally still I carried on getting ready to take them out. Every time the springer moved off his bed I stopped getting ready. This went on for over 45 minutes but eventually he stopped for long enough for us to clip on. The process was repeated every day for some time but with the waiting interval growing less each day.

Can't remember how long it took but he did in the end realise that being still came before a walk. I think walking out was such an astounding experience for him he just couldn't control himself.

Pulling on the lead like a train did apply to my rescue, 14 month old beardie. With her, when that happened I simply stopped and, at first, put her back to heel, before carrying on. This was a real trial when we were on holiday approaching the sea and she could see all the other beardies already in the water. I was a long, lonely journey with both dogs. Both tended to drift but if I stopped, each realised why and came back to heel.

Millie, my beardie, still has some tendency to do this, even after over five years with me but this is probably due to my initial lack of experience and maybe if I had persevered earlier she would be better by now.

Hope you find this helpful. Her other behaviours sound brilliant, I must get my Millie to read your post !!

Good luck.
Joy and Millie Moppet


Joy - spot on! Very Happy

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roy lee
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

thank you all for your comments and observations, I am so pleased that I found The Friendly Beardie Club. I now look at Millie in a different light, this morning was her first walk since joining and we could see the pleasure and exuberance coming from her, if she calms down fine if she does not calm down fine, we are so happy that we found out her behavior is nothing to be concerned about
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

They aren't known as "weirdie Beardies" for nothing. Laughing Wink
Stick with us and share your exploits with her, she sounds great.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Very Happy Aww, good to hear...upwards and onwards, Millie

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

roy lee wrote:
thank you all for your comments and observations, I am so pleased that I found The Friendly Beardie Club. I now look at Millie in a different light, this morning was her first walk since joining and we could see the pleasure and exuberance coming from her, if she calms down fine if she does not calm down fine, we are so happy that we found out her behavior is nothing to be concerned about

I think you are just one of the many of us who are owned by these wonderful, life-loving, people-loving etc. Beardies. Very Happy It is this fantastic ability to convey their innermost feelings that make this breed so enjoyable to own. Smile I have had Beardies since 1984 and have just got no. 4 - he is adorable! The pleasure it gives me to see him develop more and more everyday is beyond words. Today he learned about meeting new people in a strange-to-him environment - we went to have lunch in the chilly, but sunny, garden of a reasonably near pub. And then the rain/sleet started and we were encouraged to go inside. Initially we declined the invite, but despite the Landlord being told that he was not yet' 100% reliable', he was welcomed into the stone-floored bar with no concerns whatsoever about his possible 'accidents'. 'That will mop up in a second' we were told. He did not disgrace himself although he did turn out to be the star attraction and welcomed back with open arms!! Many thanks to the NT Dolaucothi pub, near the Gold Mines. Smile

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi there,

It sounds like you have already had some great advice from Jacquie and others.

Beardies often do have very excitable personalities but it can make them prone to anxiety at times as some of the same chemicals released when a dog is excited are released when its anxious so the two emotions are relatively close to each other in a physiological way although complete opposites in their meaning.

If taking Millie for a walk is becoming not so pleasant for you because of this then I think you need to help her along and address her behaviour as if things with our dogs are not pleasurable then that can soon affect our relationship with them and at such an important time when you are trying to build one with her.

Firstly from her point of view she has lost her beloved guardian and has then been placed into kennels which can be very stressful for beardies and many other dogs. This can impact greatly on her personality, emotions and behaviour. She has then come to live with you which can also be stressful. So when we look at what she has experienced in the last few months itís a great deal and she will be very confused . It can take some dogs quite a long time to settle down so in time you may find her behaviour becomes improved in this area.

I think she is more likely getting over excited and then becoming anxious. Then as you proceed on your walk she may still be in an anxious state, her walking in front of you may be an indication of this. She may also have some anxiety about meeting new people, as she ignores people when she is off lead may suggest this, but I am sure you would know in other ways.

Her previous guardian may have induced her behaviour by being excited themselves when its walkies time and this is the norm for her. The key to this is being calm ourselves. If we just take a deep breath and try not to get worked up as we know whatís coming but just stay calm dogs often follow us. I canít say what to do exactly without seeing her but making her stay in her bed for a long period of time will only cause further anxiety and she may come to see her bed as a place she goes when she has done something wrong which we donít want to happen. We can calm them down ourselves quite quickly by not even saying anything to them and by how we behave. Sorry I canít say but itís hard to describe.

It sounds like when you stop to talk to people her anxiety may cause her to become a bit frustrated or fearful. When a dog is stationary it has more time to think of things, as we do. When a dog is moving forward so is its brain. You may be stopping for too long and she gets stressed so may be keep the times you stop to talk to the minimum and build up on this. If Millie does have some anxiety about meeting new people then you will need further guidance in helping her overcome this.

I have two beardies and they get excited when itís time to go out for a walk but they dont get over excited. They dont bark or jump up but just happily follow me around as I get things together we need. I never trained them to be this way, I just stayed calm myself and they never became over excited. Once outside they walk calmly on the lead. I think itís important that our dogs are excited when itís time to go on our walks and we should not try to change that but it can be detrimental to their wellbeing if they get to overexcited. If you get Millie to sit before you go out she may be sitting but it may not mean she is calm, she may still be boiling with excitement inside and is suppressing her emotions which is also stressful. When I help an over excited dog in this sort of situation I dont give the dog commands, it may stand, sit or lay down, whatever it wants as long as the dog becomes calm.

I know you have been told that she is trying to be top dog, thatís not correct to be honest, she is looking for your guidance which you can give by being calm.

The RSPCA should have their own behaviourist who will help you, just hope that was not the person who has already given you some advice.

Best of luck with her and I hope you have many years of joy together.

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roy lee
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

after all the comments that I received 5 months ago about my rescue beardie X I thought an update might interest members
We called in a behaviorist a few weeks ago because we were getting no improvement in her. the RSPCA could not give any further info on her history, visits to 2 different vets yielded nothing
The lady made two visits and because her suggestions on the first visit had no effect on Millie she advised us on the second visit to not force her to go a walk or even to go outside and it is working she is a much happier dog. It appears that for reasons unknown she has extreme separation anxiety and it will take as long as it takes to improve her confidence and we have to give all the time she needs, and we are now trying to stimulate her physically and mentally. I will keep you updated on any progress
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So glad to hear that she is a happier dog - and well done you for persevering like you have - she is lucky to have found you. Thanks for the update, and yes, let us know how you progress

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for updating it's good to know you have found some way of making life happier for your girl. If only we knew what had happened in the past with these poor dogs.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for letting us know how things are going.

Sorry I am a bit unsure about things. In your original post Millie seemed ok about going out although it sounded like she was getting excited and then anxious. I was wondering why you have had to start encouraging her to go outside? Has she since your first post refused to go out for a walk?

Again sorry for all the questions but what symptoms is she showing that the lady determined she has extreme separation anxiety?

Thanks

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Last edited by snowleopard on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for your update Roy, have been wondering how things are coming along. IT's good to know she's happier now. Keep us up to date won't you. Smile It would be nice to see a photo of her. Very Happy

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