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roy lee
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

We spent a long time thinking that it was over excitement and we spent months trying to get her calm but after 7 months we had achieved nothing and we contacted the behaviorist and after we had the first visit of the behaviorist she thought that her body language was telling that she was frightened of the lead so the lady suggested taking Millie in the car to her walking area but this only served to make the situation worse, so on the second visit she had us go through the 'getting ready for the walk' scenario and she realised that the body language was in fact a fear of leaving the house ( low fast tail wagging, panting and yawning) and she suggested not trying to get Millie to go out so we have been practising this for 2 weeks and the change needs seeing to believe it
Thanks for your interest and we will certainly keep you abreast of progress of our daft dog
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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks very much for the information Roy.

I donít have the advantage of seeing Millie but it sounds like there have been some changes in her feelings and behaviour since you first posted about her. She did appear to become over excited when it was time to go on a walk which soon turned to stress and anxiety. Her behaviour now has changed as she has a low fast wagging tail, she is panting and yawning when itís time to go on a walk.

The low wagging tail, her panting and yawing in this case our calming signals directed to you, rather than a fear of going out. Her head may also be slightly positioned down usually as the dog walks towards you. This body language is used to calm you down, itís a pacifying behaviour. In trying to calm her down you may have caused her some apprehension in the way Millie views you in this situation. This would indicate why it has taken so long for you to try and calm her down and why itís not worked.
Once on the lead if Millie is still then jumping up and shrieking then she has become over excited at that point.

Keeping Millie in the house is not really addressing the problem and if she is not able to go for a walk then that will have possible consequences such as other problem behaviours arising due to Millieís emotional state. For anyone who suffers from any anxiety exercise is key to their improvement and mental wellbeing and itís the same for our dogs. She may be more relaxed as she does not have to experience the stress caused by going out but other stresses will soon come to light.

I am not sure if it was the behaviourist who told you Millie has extreme separation anxiety but Millieís anxiety and behaviour is not related to separation anxiety. That is when dogs become fearful about being on their own and they may become destructive, bark excessively, pace up and down and may lose control of bodily functions. I have seen many dogs that are unsure about going out the house and they have never behaved like Millie, they often just back away and are quiet or once on the lead they wonít move.

I do hope that you can help Millie Roy but I think you really need to know whatís going on here to be able to do that in the right way.

Best of luck with her

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beardielady
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Have you tried:

1. Walking her with another dog/ another dog and person from your home? It might just take her mind off things and break the pattern.

2. Having someone else walk her (and you stay at home or out of sight) and see what happens? It is amazing how the same dog can sometimes behave differently with different handlers. Sorry, (and this is not a criticism) but she may be reacting to your behaviour. For example you could be anxious and she becomes fearful too or she could see you as the underdog.

Of course it does not address the problem if she does walk fine with other people but at least then you know what the problem is.

Also you may want to have her thyroid checked out. If she is hypothyroid (or even borderline) this would probably increase any anxiety, excitability.
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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I found these videos Roy to show you what I mean about dogs getting to aroused and which can then become anxious.

In the first one you can see a lovely little staff. The signs that he is getting a bit anxious is very subtle as just after he gets her coat she starts to spin round, thatís the sign this dog is now becoming stressed although he looks happy.

In the other video the dog passes out with excitement which I have never seen myself. Not sure this dog may have some medical problem as well but it shows what we have been talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8nUYGTSyCI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp03AorAWLY

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beardielady
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I viewed the videos, snowleopard.

With the first one it seemed cute that the dog was doing tricks but I think perhaps just getting the one item - its lead- and then going for a walk would be enough as the dog could get frustrated and too excited having to wait even longer for its walk.

With the second video, I found that disturbing viewing and I dare not say what I thought of the woman! The dog looked old and was obviously distressed and as you say, probably has a medical problem. Some dogs can have seizures due to getting too excited.
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beardielady
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Just continuing with the whole dog behaviour subject. Isn't it strange that us humans can be scared, stressed, annoyed etc. coping with every day life but we expect our dogs not to be scared of anything, to fit right in with everything?. At least humans can understand things like thunderstorms, fireworks, traffic etc. whilst dogs can not. I think, nowadays, with all the noise, every item seeming to beep, buzz or play a tune it is becoming more and more difficult for the noise sensitive Beardie to cope.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

beardielady wrote:
Just continuing with the whole dog behaviour subject. Isn't it strange that us humans can be scared, stressed, annoyed etc. coping with every day life but we expect our dogs not to be scared of anything, to fit right in with everything?. At least humans can understand things like thunderstorms, fireworks, traffic etc. whilst dogs can not. I think, nowadays, with all the noise, every item seeming to beep, buzz or play a tune it is becoming more and more difficult for the noise sensitive Beardie to cope.


I do so agree with this beardielady; I also wonder why on earth we seem to think that dogs should like/get on with everyone (and every dog) when we ourselves do not!

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

beardielady wrote:
Just continuing with the whole dog behaviour subject. Isn't it strange that us humans can be scared, stressed, annoyed etc. coping with every day life but we expect our dogs not to be scared of anything, to fit right in with everything?. At least humans can understand things like thunderstorms, fireworks, traffic etc. whilst dogs can not. I think, nowadays, with all the noise, every item seeming to beep, buzz or play a tune it is becoming more and more difficult for the noise sensitive Beardie to cope.


I would agree as well Beardielady.

Yes sorry if anyone else found the second video distressing to watch but thought it was important to highlight how becoming so aroused can affect a dogs mental and physical health.

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beardielady
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It does not help in roy lee's case that they do not know much of the dog's history. This dog may have spent all her previous life not going for a walk or it could be something that has happened during her time at the kennels.

Jacquietwig, perhaps because we think dogs are not as biased and judgemental as humans? Although in practice my Beardies can meet two new people at the same time who greet the dogs the same but then the dogs will ignore one of them and favour the other!
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Threebeards
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

beardielady wrote:
It does not help in roy lee's case that they do not know much of the dog's history. This dog may have spent all her previous life not going for a walk or it could be something that has happened during her time at the kennels.

Jacquietwig, perhaps because we think dogs are not as biased and judgemental as humans? Although in practice my Beardies can meet two new people at the same time who greet the dogs the same but then the dogs will ignore one of them and favour the other!



Exactly! After all, we can also be attracted by some people, and not others.

Dogs are the same, and are attracted to some people, and not others at all.
Or other dogs!

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I know there is no evidence to prove it but I think dogs have the ability to sense the sort of person we are. Itís like they know if we are calm, patient, kind and caring and if we are not.

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judy g
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Very Happy Agree...I have many dog friends.... Very Happy

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Threebeards
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Same here Judy, and their dogs love me too!! Smile

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judy g
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Laughing Pam, I was talking about the dogs!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So was I darling, but all my friends have dogs so they're my "doggie friends!" Laughing Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Very Happy Well then, snap!

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roy lee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I thought that I would give a short update on our Millie's progress ( or lack of it)
We have not taken her out on a walk for several months now, we try her every few weeks with putting her harness and lead on but she starts with her getting uptight and it is only when we remove them that she starts to calm down.
We have also tried leaving her alone- a few minutes to start increasing to 1 1/2 hours to date and we have had no problems at all she fusses us when we get back for a few minutes then settles down
when the family visits she goes a bit OTT when greeting them but then is happy just in their company
It is a totally different story when we visit them, she screams when we get her out of the car and struggles to get back in and even wets herself and only calms down when she is back in the car and going back home, she then starts crying when she nears home it then takes hours for her to come down off the ceiling once in the house. fireworks do not bother in the house but if she hears one when she is outside she turns into a gibbering wreck, even snowing frightens her, we have tried various non prescription calming remedies but non have had any effect, I did notice that in my attempts to get her to play I tapped her on the back with my wifes slipper (the type that have no soles) and she ran to my wife crying and would not come near me for quite a while
I will give updates in the spring when perhaps we may have some improvement
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beardielady
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Did you have any success with the things I suggested back in September? I think something else to try would be to take her in the car to a quiet place, then put her lead/harness on to try and break the cycle of putting it on at home and her getting worried.

Did you also have her thyroid tested? In fact it might help to have a full blood test done on Millie to make sure all is okay. Certainly if her thyroid is not working okay this can add to the fear problem.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh I'm so sorry to hear Millie is still in such a state about leaving your property, it sounds as though she has had no socialisation/habituation at all Sad If you hadn't said her owner had died I would have said she was a puppy farm bitch. I expect Chris will be along soon to help but in the meantime have you taken her to the vet? I know probably something that would be very difficult to do but they can prescribe calming products that aren't available over the counter and are more effective just short term. If you can get her off the ceiling it may give her a chance to realise that outside is not as scarey as she thinks. Also some blood tests may show something as there may just be a medical reason for her anxiety. If you ring/go see the vet in advance they may be willing to see Millie in the car or make an appointment out of hours to make things easier for you both.

Although it can't be easy I think you are doing the right thing in not trying to force her to accept a walk as that will just make it worse in her mind. Have you tried putting her harness on in the house, but not taking her outside, just giving her time to calm down and realise that the harness doesn't necessarily mean she has to go outside. Feed her tasty treats, if she will take them, so she makes a positive association with the harness rather than the negative one she has at present. If she eventually got to accept the harness in the house and garden then you could maybe attach a lead for a while, baby steps, just get her used to things gradually so the anxiety doesn't build.

Good luck, please do keep us updated.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Itís a shame you have not been able to make any progress with Millie in the last few months. There seems to be a lot going on here and itís hard for me to give you advice without seeing Millie for myself. I think you need some guidance in how to interact with Millie as there seems to be some misunderstanding of each otherís emotions and behaviour going on.

Its best never to tap any dog with any type of footwear especially a dog like Millie as you don't know her history, although I do know you did this to promote play. You want to build a relationship on trust and respect but although you may not have hurt Millie she was scared by what you did and was unsure of you for some time.

If you get her in the car how do you manage that if she wonít come out of the house?

I would advise you to take Millie to see your vet, if you have not done so, so your vet can give Millie a good check up. You may have to insists on the tests being done that have been suggested to you. If you get that done then we may be able to help you and Millie some more, but it's best to rule out a medical condition first as she does appear to be suffering from increasing stress and anxiety.

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roy lee
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I thought that because of the interest shown in Millie's condition I would give a quick update, she has now definitely made our house her home, she lays on the sofa (allowed) she jumps into my or my wife's seat as soon as we vacate it, she has to get between us if we sit together all indicators that she is 'at home'
the down side to this is she refuses point blank to get into the car whereas when we first got her she would happily leap in, perhaps she thought that we were going to take her 'home' and now she is at home and therefore as no wish to go anywhere, she greets visitors with the now usual barking screaming and jumping but she will not go past the front door threshold
When we take her a walk she still goes beserk but we can clearly see that it is exuberance so we accept that she is not going change any time soon and she is simply 'dim but nice'
I will keep you informed if and when any changes occur
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kathryn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well this is so lovely to read. Millie is sounding very Happy and content.
Xx

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roy lee
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We have owned Millie for nearly 3 years now and I have to say that she qualifies as one of the most obnoxious dogs I know when out, she continues to be perfect when indoors, but take her a walk and we have the same old crying yappy barking etc in addition we now have to put her on the lead when near other dogs because she charges up to them like a maniac to say hello and it startles the other dog ( and their owner)
over the months we have tried everything that we can think of but to no avail- she simply changes character when outside
She is not a stupid dog she is just average when indoors but when out she simply loses the plot
I have owned quite a few dogs over the years but always from pups so I think that a rescue with no known back ground was a mistake from our point of view but we will not be giving up hope any time soon
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