anaesthetics...anyone had problems

Friend for Life Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 7034

Haven't been on for a while, happened to see your post. So sorry. Have pmed you.
Good Luck!

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:04 pm

Just wondered if there was any update on Freddie?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:25 pm

Hi Everyone...thanks everyone for your concern. The vets are running further tests to try and find the problem and I should get an update in the next couple of days and I will do a post on here
His behaviour is really erratic. One day he wants to go for a walk such as last night and and he was trotting and running all the way around the walk (about a mile or so) and today back to walking like a snail ...likewise sometimes he hears when i speak to him and other times he doesnt. At least we are getting a few tail wags again which we havent had for a few weeks but I am having trouble getting him to eat ,.....all he will eat is a tiny bit of pasta , hotdog sausage and chicken straight out the oven. He just refuses everything else ...
he refuses kibble,chappie,fish cheese which he would have gobbled down a few weeks ago...I cant work out if he is just not interested or is having difficulty eating

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:47 am

Thanks for updating it's so worrying when they wont eat, I take it the Vet did check his mouth? Hope you get some answers soon.

Senior Friend Joined: 07 Aug 2010 Posts: 139

What is the name of the antibiotics he was given? Is he still having them?

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:51 pm

He is on Noroclav

Senior Friend Joined: 07 Aug 2010 Posts: 139

I do sympathize - it is awful when they do not want to eat. I presume Freddie was eating okay before the anaesthetic?

If something has happened to him during the procedure he may have lost his sense of smell, taste or cognition which may be why he is off his food.

Have you tried giving him smaller meals and more often? Also have you tried mashing it up, soaking the kibble in warm water or adding gravy (check the ingredients are okay for dogs) to make it smell more, taste more?

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:05 pm

I have tried all kinds of foods including pasta, rice, chappie ,fish, cheese porridge etc . All he will eat is chicken and sausage and dog biscuits (which is strange as he seems to drop other foods out of his mouth and the dog biscuits are hard )......I have real trouble getting him to take his medication also ...any tips here would be appreciated

He has been put on medication for hypothyroidism to see if this helps as he has lots of the symptoms but his blood tests are not conclusive

Senior Friend Joined: 07 Aug 2010 Posts: 139

I can only think of tipping his head gently back and putting or dropping the tablet down or giving with a piece of food. BUT it is advisable NOT to give thyroid medication to dogs with FOOD. Please see Dr Jean Dodd's advice copied below:

Properly Administering Thyroid Medication to Your Dog

image

Dr. Dodds cannot emphasize enough how to administer thyroid medication to your dog correctly. Please help spread the word so dogs are on the right dosage and so the medication is working most effectively.

Giving Thyroid Medication to Your Companion Animal:
- Twice per day
- 1 hour before OR 3 hours after feeding
- Without foods or treats containing calcium or soy
- If calcium is not listed on the back panel of the treat, please refer to the manufacturer’s website

W. Jean Dodds, DVM
Hemopet / NutriScan
11561 Salinaz Avenue
Garden Grove, CA 92843

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:33 pm

Hi
Sorry, I've not logged on for a while and have just seen your post. So sorry to hear about your poor boy.

One thing I wanted to mention. You said he was given Dolorex - after looking this up, I believe it is part of the Ivermectin family of drugs (just another name for it) and, as you may know, some Beardies have the MDR1 gene mutation that has an adverse reaction to Ivermectin (I see that someone else mentioned this too).

Over 15 years ago my first Beardie ate the tiniest amount of a horse wormer off the yard. It was a new horse wormer (that has since been taken off the market) which didn't say it had Ivermectin in it. Turns out it did. The side effects of him picking up this horse wormer caused neurological issues and blindeness....he could only see shadows and showed a lot of the symptoms that you are describing.

I think they gave him Steroids and it took around 10 days for his site, etc to come back.

Just thought it's worth mentioning.

I so hope you your boy bounces back soon.

Friend for Life Joined: 17 Mar 2011 Posts: 1496

Hi,

You mention that you are having trouble getting Freddie to take his meds. Do you mean although its difficult you are getting his meds down or is he missing his meds some days.

If he is not consistently taking his meds then that may have something to do with his current behaviour. Hypothyroid disease in dogs may cause mood changes such as depression which may explain the behavioural signs of stress and anxiety Freddie is showing (circling). Dogs may also lose their taste and may want to walk one day but not the other. It’s a very complex disease in terms of the symptoms and behaviours is produces.

If you have not been consistently able to get Freddie to take his meds then I would suggest you tell your vet if you have not already as your vet may well feel Freddie’s problems are caused by this as well. If Freddie has been taking his meds then I would ask about his dosage and does that need adjusting.

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:24 pm

Can anyone recommend any vets in the midlands with a good neurology department or any naturopaths or anyone who may be able to help us. We have seen the eye person and neurologist at our practice but I want a second opinion from another vet neurologist. I am sure he is dizzy or something like that also because he has taken a real dislike to the car and cries and howls which he has never done before (He seems worse on bendy roads...he was better on the motorway

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:28 pm

Just googled this - their vet Mike Targett is, amongst other vet credentials, a European specialist in Veterinary Neurology...no idea about the practice, but their practice came up when I googled Veterinary neurologists and he has a list of credentials as long as your arm.
http://www.dovecoteveterinaryhospital.co.uk/team.html

xxx

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:34 pm

freddyteddy wrote:

Can anyone recommend any vets in the midlands with a good neurology department or any naturopaths or anyone who may be able to help us. We have seen the eye person and neurologist at our practice but I want a second opinion from another vet neurologist. I am sure he is dizzy or something like that also because he has taken a real dislike to the car and cries and howls which he has never done before (He seems worse on bendy roads...he was better on the motorway

If you feel he is dizzy then that could point to vestibular as mentioned earlier, did your vet have an opinion on that?

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:39 pm

The vets suspect progressive central nervous disease or intercranial lesion.....but I am still not convinced
His strange behaviour (turning circles and standing in corners) , hearing loss and visual loss(He can still see a little and hear a little )all came on straight after the sedation....this is why I want a second opinion

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:51 pm

I have used The Willows with my old boy,Murdoch, and couldn't praise them enough at the time, but haven't needed them since thank goodness. Not that we needed their neurology dept but they do have one.

https://www.willows.uk.net/specialist-services

They have a state of the art practice and are one of the top referral practices in the country I believe. You would need a referral though.

Really hope you can get some answers soon. I can only imagine how distressing this must be for you all.

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:38 am

freddyteddy wrote:

The vets suspect progressive central nervous disease or intercranial lesion.....but I am still not convinced
His strange behaviour (turning circles and standing in corners) , hearing loss and visual loss(He can still see a little and hear a little )all came on straight after the sedation....this is why I want a second opinion

I think you're right to seek a second opinion it seems very strange that these symptoms materialised straight after sedation.

Senior Friend Joined: 07 Aug 2010 Posts: 139

If these symptoms came on quickly after his anaesthetic visit I would have thought it was unlikely to be due to a brain tumour or problem....unless he had suffered a trauma to the head.

Are you managing to give him his thyroid meds.? Is he eating any better?

What other symptoms did Freddie have prior to the anaesthetic visit? You mention a problem with his kidneys? Not wanting to worry you unnecessary but as you are trying to find out why he is like it, have you considered
S.L.E.? They can have neurological and kidney problems with that......

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:19 pm

I spoke to vets today and they are pretty sure he has a brain lesion., has had it for a while and this has been made worse by the sedation It seems strange that the 2 days before he had the sedation we were out doing 3 mile walks. The only signs he showed of anything at this time were runny, slightly scabby nostrils and lethargy The problem is I darent risk another sedation for an MRI scan to check this out ... he has had auto immune diseases twice and I am worried that we are missing something here. He has took a great dislike to car journeys(no problem before) and I get the impression he doesnt like going round bends in the road. Since the sedation he sleeps really deeply and we have trouble waking him up. He is eating a little food now (mainly chicken casserole as that seems to be the only thing he fancies ) He walks into corners in the house and is puzzled as how to get out but he can still do walks off the lead (if a bit slow) He seems to hear sometimes but not other times and he has vision problems

Has anyone got any more ideas as to what could be wrong if it is not a lesion ...could it be another auto immune I havent come accross

Senior Friend Joined: 07 Aug 2010 Posts: 139

Did you have a look at Systemic Lupus Erythematosus (SLE)? Autoimmune diseases like Discoid Lupus and Pemphigus have "crusty nose" symptoms but the SLE has the kidney etc. ones as well. The scabby nose and lethargy could be Hypothyroidism so hopefully will clear up with the medication.

If you contact Jo Tucker on 020 8368 9148 she may be able to rule out some of those autoimmune diseases in Freddie's case.

A second opinion with a specialist sounds a good idea although, like you, I would not be in a hurry to have more sedation and scans. Perhaps it may be best to just wait and see. Maybe he is still adjusting to his sight and hearing loss. I presume he had his ears checked out?

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:56 pm

Have you read about S.L.E. that Beardielady suggested?
xxx

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:34 pm

I have had a look at SLE but the syptoms dont fit .

Friend for Life Joined: 17 Mar 2011 Posts: 1496

It’s the timing of the onset of Freddie’s change in behaviour that appears to be the reason for you to have any certainty about the cause due to it being coincidental which I do appreciate.

We did talk about this being a brain lesion originally and since then your vet seems to think this may be so. It’s also complicated due to Freddie having hypothyroid disease which again may cause the same symptoms. However although the behaviours may be the same they may appear in different ways. So for example with a brain lesion some behaviours like circling may be observable without there being an actual stimulus that causes this, so behaviours are seen with no really cause or understanding. If you see a hedgehog just circling its often due to a brain lesion and the behaviour has no stimulus causing it other than the lesion in the brain. With hypothyroid disease the same behaviours are often caused by a stimulus.

In contrast to this when you called Freddie back and he could not locate you he got anxious and circled. This time the same behaviour has some context, so we can say ok his circling was due to him not being able to find you and he got stressed so it acted as a coping mechanism. So it may be the behaviours Freddie is displaying due to a possible brain lesion he may also come to perform these when stressed or anxious. It’s quite complicated and needs a lot of time spent observing the dogs behaviour in general.

It makes sense that the sedation may have some impact on Freddie’s central nervous system and behaviour with him already having a brain lesion but I dont know the science behind this.

If you observe Freddie’s behaviours and make notes of when they arise and is there any reasoning for them such as any stimuli, it may help you come to some conclusion.

Take care

Friend for Life Joined: 17 Mar 2011 Posts: 1496

freddyteddy wrote:

Can anyone recommend any vets in the midlands with a good neurology department or any naturopaths or anyone who may be able to help us. We have seen the eye person and neurologist at our practice but I want a second opinion from another vet neurologist. I am sure he is dizzy or something like that also because he has taken a real dislike to the car and cries and howls which he has never done before (He seems worse on bendy roads...he was better on the motorway

This may also be due to changes in Freddie’s brain which are causing him some distress, sadly you may see more.

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:27 pm

Has anyone used Dovecote vets at castle donington. If you have please let me know