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ayr41
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Our lovely one year Beardie ďEllieĒ is a great girl in all ways but one, she is terrible to take a walk with our other Beardie who is ten. she pulls all the time, I have tried a halti but that gave her a sore eye as she scratched the eye area when the halti was removed. I then tried a harness but that did not stop the pulling. Iím using a choke chain at present allthough that makes little difference, any advice would be gratefully received, regards Stephen.

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judy g
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Stephen - get a Gentle Leader ( see online ) - it is just like a halter for a horse, fits snug to the head and neck but, the crucial difference to a Halti is that it does NOT put pressure of any kind ie cutting off air supply, on the nose of the dog.

It is a very effective headcollar....once it is fitted, it acts just like a horse halter ie it controls the head of the dog, but does NOT cause any discomfort or stress to the dog at all. I used one on my late Betsy for years, after which she was fine on just a collar and lead. I use one on a neighbour's dog I walk, and he has been transformed from a total pulling machine into a calmly trotting along dog...

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Stephen sorry to hear about Ellie, some good advice from Judy there but I would also like to point you towards a couple of other headcollars that would be my preference were I to use one, have a look at these:

http://www.dogmatic.org.uk/

https://www.kumfi.com/product/dogalter/

For me I would always use a harness as this puts no pressure on the neck (please dish the coke there is a lot of evidence to show a lot of damage is done to the trachea from these) and also doesn't force the dogs head up into a confrontational position which can happen with a headcollar. Have a look at these harnesses they have a front attachment which helps to prevent pulling:

http://www.truelove-pet.com/products_detail/productId=149.html

I use these on all my dogs, not that they pull but because I now have an aversion to putting pressure on any type of collar after learning about the damage that can be done.

Best though would be to get some advice on teaching her not to pull, I wont go into it here as it is a bit long but if you persevere it can be done even with the most determined pullers.

Good luck and let us know how you get on Smile

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Last edited by Jacquietwig on Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ayr41
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you for these never knew about those and will definately give one of them a go, anything to give my arm a rest as it always acheís after a walk, thanks again and regards Stephen.

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Threebeards
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

You can always take her to basic obedience classes, and teach her to heel on command Smile

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Stephen,

I feel for you as what should be a nice pleasant walk can become quit stressful and something we may not look forward to. Head collars may be helpful but they do not really address the reason why Ellie is pulling, this may be due to genetic or emotional factors like excitement or anxiety. If you do have some success using them Ellie should be rewarded for her calmer behaviour so she learns she is walking in the desired position. I have seen many dogs which when fitted with a head collar still try to pull and their head spends most of the time sideways on to its body. I am sure this must also put a lot of strain on the dogs neck as well.

It can be with beardies that they are so excited to go out for a walk that once out due to a highly aroused state that excitement may soon turn into anxiety which causes more intense pulling. I always ensure a dog is calm before coming out of the home and it will be less likely to pull.

Some dogs may have a fear of traffic so tend to pull more intensely when on busy roads and less intensely on quieter ones. You mention that Ellie is terrible to walk with your other Beardie. Do you mean Ellie does not pull as much when on her own or its just more difficult walking the two dogs? Do both dogs get on well with each other as if Ellie only pulls when with your other beardie that may indicate Ellie has some anxiety in this situation.

I have included two links for you that may help. Itís the way I help guide a dog to walk nicely. It does take time and you will have to work with Ellie on her own to do this. Like many of these videos the dogs they help are often calm and they make it look easy. In the real world the dog is pulling your arm off and your all over the place so dont be put off.

If you do wish to use a training aid then these get good reviews. They dont put any pressure on the neck and wearing them should not cause a dog as much anxiety as a head collar may.

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/stop-pull-harness

I agree with Jacquie, best to stop using the choke collar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ2KZjUT6_U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fujx6vGC4

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ayr41
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you for that, she seems to want to get to other dogs and always on the lookout for other dogs, I tried one of the harnesses but the pulling was just as bad, took some treats out with me but she was more interested in what was around the next corner, strangly some days are worse than others, worse is when we exit the house and best is ussually when we come back, I have ordered one of the head collars, if not might progress to one of the dogmatic ones, it was fairly cheap so I will see how I get on with that, thanks again for taking the time to reply it has been most helpful, regards Stephen.

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Your welcome Stephen,

Some dogs do pull more when on a harness and some do walk better, if you have never tried a no pull harness it may be worth keeping that in mind in the future.

Its sounds like Ellie is very excitable and when they get so aroused food rewards are not always helpful as the dog is really unable to focus very well at this level. I always start in a quiet place first where the dog is more likely to focus better on us without getting to distracted. I take it when she is looking for other dogs she just wants to say hello.

Good luck

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Threebeards
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is where the classes are good, because she's mixing with other dogs and socializing. I took all my Beardies to obedience, and it was wonderful. Do you have a club near you?

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ayr41
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes she just wants to play and run around, I have let her off the lead a couple of times but she just runs around and is a little monkey to get back on the leash. Regards Stephen

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Stephen if she's not getting off lead running she will be much more excitable and that will increase her pulling. It would be good to practise your recall using a long line and very tasty treats like liver cake or cooked chicken, then you will be able to let her off so she can use up some of that excess energy that all beardies have Laughing Laughing Have you got any friends with young dogs that would be willing to play with her? You could set up play dates in a secure area. Wink Very Happy

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ayr41
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Jacquie I have one of those but a bit difficult as Clyde is with me but once I get the harness I will take some treats with, no unfortunately I donít have any friends with puppies but I do know a few people who walk their dogs on the same routes, thanks for all your helpful advice regards Stephen.

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Stephen,

If Ellie has only been allowed off lead a couple of times we have likely found the cause of her pulling and I agree with Jacquie. She is very excited to go on walks so pulls but then is not allowed to come off lead and run round with any doggy friends so her excitement possibly turns into frustration and anxiety which then causes her to pull even more. In time the lack of exercise can lead to other emotional and behavioural problems.

Jacquieís advice sounds great and more suited to Ellie and her personality. If you took Ellie to a class you may find depending on the class if it is mostly obedience based that it would be stressful for Ellie, like we have talked about in another thread. All Ellie may wish to do is play with the other dogs but most of the time she may be asked to follow obedience cues but may not be able to concentrate as all she wants to do is play. If you can find a class based on socialisation and play that would be good for her.

I would seek the advice of a professional who can help you with the recall so eventually Ellie can be let off lead. Even when given lots of exercise it may not now stop the pulling, you may still have to work on that but it will be made a lot easier as Ellie will not have as much energy and her needs will be met.

Best of Luck

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ayr41
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thought I would post a photo of her so you can put a face to the thread. Ellie is the black one next to her best pal Clyde this was taken when we recently went to The Isle of Skye for our holiday

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

She looks adorable, is she working bred Stephen?

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judy g
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Shocked wowie....her head and ears look like my late Betsy's! wowie....lovely girlie Smile

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ayr41
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes she is a working Beardie we got her from a breeder in Lanark she had her first birthday a couple of weeks ago.

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ellie looks lovely Stephen.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ahhh, my Betsy was a Beardie/Border, that sort of explains the similar ears etc Smile When she barked, her ears flipped up and down

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lovely photo Stephen, your boy Clyde is lovely too. Very Happy

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Jacquietwig
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ayr41 wrote:
Yes she is a working Beardie we got her from a breeder in Lanark she had her first birthday a couple of weeks ago.


Ahh there we are then, I have working beardies and they do have different needs to the show bred ones. Working beardies are very work focused and have a very high drive so need a lot of mental stimulation. A tip given to me by the breeder of my present two was to get them focused on a ball then you will have no problems with recall. Personally I haven't done that as for a start I don't like obsessiveness and also I have other beardies and there could be scraps over possession of a ball. Certainly a ball or other toy may be more affective than treats in getting your recall with a working bred dog.

When she is older if you could take her to agility, or better still have a few agility obstacles in your garden, then that will help to focus her and calm her as it gives them a job to do which working beardies really need. No jumping until she is 18 months old though, apart from little low ones. Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

You could work on Ellies recall Stephen in your back garden first of all so you get your technique right and with no distractions for Ellie. Attempting to teach the recall on a walk can be a bit distracting as you have to compete with so many other interesting things going on. Once consistent in the garden you can progress to a long lead on your walks. Itís also not about her coming back to you and then being put on the lead. You need to let her come back to you and then reward her and let her go and play again so she learns coming back to you does not mean she always gets put on the lead.

A treat is good as a reward when she comes to you but you may need to use something else to get her attention focused on you. I often use a sound, like my voice, whistle or a loud squeaky toy as the toy serves two purposes it attracts the dog to you and is a reward once there.

The recall can be much more than just training, it can be about the bond we have with our dogs. At Ellies age many dogs are more interested in playing and dont always want to come back to us but itís important you work on it now.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I love Ellie's look; she reminds me a little of Magic, our first Beardie from way back in the late 1970's Very Happy Clyde looks absolutely gorgeous too Very Happy

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ayr41
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes your dead right about the ball once Clyde has it she wants it back and drives him mad yapping to get it back, just done a bit of recall in the garden like you say nice and peaceful with a few treats. I have some jumps from when Bonnie was alive she was brilliant at it but as you say I will leave it a while with Ellie. As she has only just turned one, many thanks Stephen

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snowleopard
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The good thing about starting in the garden Stephen is that there is no pressure on you or Ellie and it is more fun. This then helps develop a greater bond which in turn helps with the recall itself.

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