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Joybells
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think I may just be about to lay myself open to snipes if not full blooded attack. However, these thoughts have been rolling round in my mind ever since I watched one of the first tv showings from Crufts and if I don't let them out I will explode.

I went to Crufts for the first time as a project after I lost Megan. It was lovely to meet people who have since become treasured friends and it was interesting seeing so many different aspects of the dog world.

However, sadly, one of the most lasting memories is that I had to walk round numerous piles of dog faeces in the car park. I was stunned; I had naively assumed that those who were so involved in the world of dogs would have good standards of care in all its aspects.

I went again the following year and once more was interested to see the range of activities. But, I also saw a poor German shepherd, in the main show ring, whose handler had to nudge the dog with his foot as they turned corners. The dog in question was very unsteady in its hind quarters and to my ignorant eye looked almost deformed; nothing like those of his breed I had seen as I grew up.

As part of the current showing on the television programmes I have watched with admiration dogs who help some of us humans to carry out our daily work; who protect us by seeking out harmful substances; who assist in bringing to justice those who would harm us; who assist many who have limited ability to look after themselves; who become companions to those whose life would be so lonely without them; who become part of the lives to millions whose lives would be less without them.

I use the word "who" deliberately. I have more than once looked my dog in the eyes and wondered how two such different species could be so close in spirit. Like many others I talk to my dog, I often think that I treat her, in many ways, just as I treat my grandchildren, (oops), and when talking about family life it is always, "we, us and ours". Is this how many of us are?

However, while I was viewing the Crufts programme, I saw handlers treating their dogs roughly, I assume, in order to present the best features to the judges. I saw dogs with obvious physical problems awarded first and second places. I can only think that this must encourage some to breed more, but why? Is this solely for money or status. Doesn't the breeding of such dogs, who have these physical characteristics, cause their lives to be of much poorer quality than it should be be. I have previously seen obedience dogs walking with their heads in a very unnatural position and I know that it takes many hours of practice for this to become a conditioned reflex. What must it be doing to the dog? Who on earth judges this to be a good thing?

Then on Thursday I saw what to me was the most demeaning television portrayal of this wonderful creature that I have ever seen - a dog wedding. I have always tried to believe that all are free to have their own opinions and to act freely, as long as they are not causing distress to others, but this to me was a betrayal of the dignity of these wonderful animals.

In my work with schoolchildren I have met many who openly admit to copying behaviour that they see in television programmes. I find it worrying that this "wedding" was presented as acceptable and amusing entertainment and even though in other parts of the programme dogs were shown to be valued I wonder which part will make the most lasting impression.What sort of person makes the decision to include this in a programme viewed by so many young people and why??????

Crufts is marketed as the world's most important dog show. Perhaps those who are responsible for it, judges in particular, should be more aware of how it might influence people. Maybe Crufts showings should in future be heralded by a warning that some of these scenes may be upsetting.

Deep breath, press submit.

Joy


Last edited by Joybells on Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:53 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mac & Tali
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

"I'll be your Wingman any-day" ... Mx Cool

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Fran
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well,they can snipe at me too,Joy, because I agree with you. I didn't see the wedding thing I'm glad to say....surely animals have some right to dignity as well as humans. As for the dog poo...we have numerous on going complaints on our village community page about the heaps of muck left for children to trail through on their way to school and the pram wheels coated.Why is it so difficult to pick it up and dispose of it.? The best one, of course ,is the little black bag,neatly tied up and abandoned on the verge or left hanging from a tree branch. Presumably the people who do this are the same ones who fly tip instead of going to the dump.You'd expect the mind set to be different at Crufts !!!!
And on a small subject hijack,the first thing I saw this morning on my Facebook news feed was a Memories photo and it was the one of us all from FBC standing outside on the steps at Crufts six years ago including CJ and Jago among others so now I am going to log off and have a nice strong cup of tea and compose myself Sad
Fran and Polly x
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Gerrie
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:09 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree also.
I have been going to Crufts for decades and the last time was three years ago. It was the last trip out anywhere that I and my late o/h had together. He died three weeks later. I am struggling with it this year for lots of reasons.
I feel thT anything that involves animals competitively can attract dodgy practices for people’s egos. Humans love to win and “be the best” and sometimes the animals pay the price. Fortunately I think Beardies.. apart from the overlong coat ... are pretty much as a dog should be.
Still a great day out and well done to all who took part. I think the Kennel Club still have some work to do though.

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Beardie Mom
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I haven’t seen any of the tv programmes yet Joy , but from what I’ve seen on Facebook most people are furious at how frivolous all the coverage is .. not so much like the doggie wedding ( I confess that hearing about it doesn’t offend me as such ) but more about comedic presentation about the serious side from Alan Carr who is a self confessed Non Dog expert albeit a dog lover . Whilst I like Clare Balding as such , I doubted her choice years ago as a dog expert to host it but I think the choice was for a known ‘general ‘ presenter .

As for the monstrous breed examples like the German Shepherd I’m as disgusted as you , same with all the flat face breeds and think the Kennel Club should be ashamed .... I have also been having a two year rant with Crufts at their allowing a stall selling wooly hats with Real fur Pom poms Evil or Very Mad I received a fob off email reply from then 2 years ago saying that all marketplace stalls have to comply with DEFRA regulations as to where their fur is sourced ... went completely over their heads that my point was ‘why would any animal lover wear real fur ‘ ... the guilty stall got round it last year by re labelling it as ‘Faux’ when it clearly wasn’t ... and of course this has been covered by the press as an ongoing issue all over the country .

Totally agree with you too about how some dogs are handled in the ring , those of us who don’t show may get shot down but it seems blatantly obvious when a dogs head is being yanked up by the handler and looks like it’s beibg choked when it’s moving off ...

So , just to prove we do have such a happy breed , here , with permission is a video of Shirley Hinchliffes Talraz boy , Beau, waiting to go into the ring ... anyone can see how excited and happy this boy is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EISW1WYIiH0&feature=youtu.be

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mac & Tali wrote:
"I'll be your Wingman any-day" ... Mx Cool


And I'll ride shotgun.... Cool

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munchkin
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

May be it is me but think a lot of the small breeds get handled a lot harsher than bigger breeds, it may be because they are shown on a table and some seem to be lifted by there lead and a hand under the bum but no real support.
I agree with you about the lack of poo picking around the out skirts, I don't know about you but I have poo bags in every pocket and hand bag. When showing at Crufts although they have caged wee areas not all dogs will used them but they provide no outside area for dogs to go, this is no excuse for not picking up.
I do think the TV programs should cover more about the dogs than some of the other silly stuff. Show us the stalls, how to groom, vets advice etc not doggie weddings.
As you know I am quite girlie with my girls and yes I talk to them a lot, yes they know what I am saying and know when I am not well or not happy. I go to the beardie ring and watch some of the dogs looking at there owners in the ring and the owners/handlers looking at them back and the eye contact says it all they are happy.
My big gripe is with the Kennel Club themselves, they insist that us with pedigree dogs must have hip scoring and eye tests which I totally agree with but they do nothing about all the cross breeds with silly names who have no health tests at all. They try to get people to join the Accredited Breeders scheme and make them pay a fair amount but it doesn't mean they are an ethical breeder just that they have ticked there boxes. They don't check on the health of the puppies born or the Co Efficiency so puppies born with bad mouths from one mating could have siblings from the same mating later and no one records it.

You have me at it now Joy rant over Laughing

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Joy I am TOTALLY on your side and prepared to be stoned or worse (which incidentally doesn't seem to be happening anyway, lots of sensible and reasonable comments have been written in response to your initial post). I've never been to Crufts (too far away!) but I've beene to smaller events here and have had more or less the same reflexions. They also apply to agility competitions. Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad

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Joybells
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you all for your interesting and supportive comments.

Hopefully those with the power to do so will take steps to try to counteract these current happenings.

Joy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Love it Jill, Bentley used to love showing.

The last time we took him to our show here, just to have look, every time we went passed the ring he would stand at the entrance, wanting to go in!!!

He was nearly 151/2 then. Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Joybells wrote:
I think I may just be about to lay myself open to snipes if not full blooded attack.


It seems you misjudged the reactions of the members here.... although it might be early days yet.... Still plenty of time for critics to wade in Wink

Again, I support all your points. In particular the bit about poo picking. Why on earth would you not do that, it's just not good manners to clear up after your dog. I am constantly frustrated walking out and seeing the amount of dog poo left on foot paths and pavements. It really is absolutely unnecessary. If you don't want to pick up then don't have a dog. FULL STOP..... Enough said from me on that point.

Regarding the show and the health of show dogs. Perhaps the only way to resolve this is to ensure that each dog has to have, and pass, a full veterinary examination prior to entering the ring. And, I mean right there at the entrance to the ring. A bit more expense for the show and an added time factor but it would ensure that only healthy dogs are allowed into the show ring. Just a view.

And the handling issue, I can see the frustration on the faces of some owner/handlers and the anxiety of their dogs is reflecting the same. I have never been a fan of chocker leads - IMHO they are cruel and should be banned. Surely, part of the showing should also be demonstrating the handler / dog relationship of "working as a team". There should be no need for such leads. Furthermore, the choker lead can be used by the handler as a method for covering up a dog's poor deportment, therefore on those grounds alone, the choker lead should be banned.

Now my rant about judging. How can you, in all honesty and fairness, have Best In Show, judged by someone who owns a dog of the same breed that is represented in the ring? That judge can not view all the other represented breeds with the same degree of equality. he/she will without doubt be biased to their own favourite - the breed of dog they own..... I think you all know what I am getting at Evil or Very Mad

Finally, the TV coverage is undoubtedly very poor. The main presenters are little more than showbiz celebrities. Ms Balding is a Horse lady from and horse training background. Yes owns dogs but I don't think she's an expert. Very little air time to the meat of the show ie Dogs Competing.... and presented by Non-Experts, which is a great shame. And, because it is commercial TV an enormous amount of time is wasted by the slots for advertisements. So very difficult to put out a balanced selection of interesting articles, interviews and actual competition coverage. Crufts own coverage should be live full time for all show and competition events as well as the other stuff like Grooming, Veterinary advice and other dog health related matters..... I'd even pay (a reasonable amount) to have full access to all that. Admittedly there's a lot to cover, but it would be another revenue stream for them because with all the will and effort all the people who like this type of thing, can't or don't want to travel to the NEC to see it. Viewing from the comfort of our TV room's - for me anyway, is much more preferable.

Phew.... now that's all of my chest, I'd better go make myself a coffee Very Happy

Robert

PS.... As for talking to your dog. I reckon we're all guilty of that. I like to think that Hobbes at lease understands some of what I say. You remember back when we first got him, all the troubles we had with the car and not being able to get him in there now all I have to do is mention going out in the car and he's sitting by the tail gate waiting to jump in

Razz

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